3 persons sparring

[Kung Fu Wang]

Escape wasn't an option at least not before my wife was safe.

Agree with you 100% there.

If you have a good reason to fight but you didn't. You will feel ashame for the rest of your life.

Run, you may live. At least for a while. You then die in your bed many years later with shame.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

In reality sometimes people can get the jump on you..

Sometimes there's no escape

Sometimes escape is not an option. One day my wife and I were walking in our neighborhood and a car rode up on us in a strange way. I told my wife that if they get out and come to us, then run home and call the police while I stay there and fight it out. I can out run my wife but in that situation I wouldn't. Thankfully the car was just the neighbors teens. I'm not sure if they were aware of what they did or if they were trying to scare us. I just knew from past neighborhoods I've lived and worked in, that it's not normal to ride up on people like that.

In the past my wife has been stalked by someone in the car. I didn't know how many people would jump out the car or if they would have guns. I just knew I couldn't run. Escape wasn't an option at least not before my wife was safe. 1, 2, or 5. Whoever jumped out of the car I knew it would be me by myself until my wife could get help.

If two people were attacking one of your family members. Would sit back and watch, pull out your phone and video tape, stand on the side and try to talk them out of it. I don't know what your physical abilities are now, but my abilities are still decent, so I know I would still be willing to get into it with multiple attackers. If it's just then may yes or maybe know. It just depends if I get caught off guard, by myself, or have to protect someone.

None of this changes the goal of escape though. One of the steps to that escape might be making sure that your wife is safe. Or temporarily (or permanently) incapacitating them so you can leave. Or getting cops/security involved. No matter what though, if you lived, that means you escaped. So that's the ultimate goal, and physically leaving is often but not always the best way to achieve that goal.

 

[JowGaWolf]

None of this changes the goal of escape though

I guess this is just one of those things where it's true for some but not for others.

 

[JowGaWolf]

None of this changes the goal of escape though. One of the steps to that escape might be making sure that your wife is safe. Or temporarily (or permanently) incapacitating them so you can leave. Or getting cops/security involved. No matter what though, if you lived, that means you escaped. So that's the ultimate goal, and physically leaving is often but not always the best way to achieve that goal.

I don't look at escape like that. If I physically incapacitate someone then it's not because I was trying to escape. It was because I was trying to dominate them to the point where they were no longer functional enough to physically attack me. I'm engaging and trying to be the dominate threat. My wife may have escaped, but I willingly engaged in battle so that she would be safe. And depending on the opportunities that I see I may actually attack first. Amy I against escaping? Of course not.f One of the things I focus on in self-defense is escape because I know that we can't beat up everyone. But I also understand that sometimes escape isn't an option and that's when we need to know how to fight back.

At no point does either one of them escape. It wasn't an option. He didn't escape danger he overcame it and dominated the danger. In this case he was the dominated danger, enough to where now the criminal is the one trying to escape.

Same with this boy. There was no where this boy could have hid to be safe. There was no where this boy could escape too. Could he have been shot? of course. He could have been shot trying to escape equally as easy.

I just think that there are times when escape isn't the best goal and that it gets overridden by a stronger will to protect. You can either try to escape the danger or dominate it.

where was this guy going to run to? He's not going to outrun his attacker. The moment he tries to run will embolden the attacker. Sort like running away from a dog.

 

[jayoliver00]

2 persons spar. The 3rd person moves around and can attack any person that he likes.

What's your opinion about this kind of sparring training?

That sounds fun. I usually do 2v1 and 3v1 sparring.

Learned the best, straightforward tactic from Krav Maga and used it to beat them all up w/Muay Thai & Boxing on the same day (they were old dudes though).

 

[jayoliver00]

Demo, yes. Sparring, no.

I think those demos were terrible in terms of teaching/identifying clear tactics for multiple opponents.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I think those demos were terrible in terms of teaching/identifying clear tactics for multiple opponents.

In fairness, it doesn't look like they were actually trying to demonstrate multiple opponent sparring. It looked more like just a way to give everyone turns in demonstrating techniques without having to stop in-between.

 

[jayoliver00]

In reality sometimes people can get the jump on you..

Sometimes there's no escape

Sometimes escape is not an option. One day my wife and I were walking in our neighborhood and a car rode up on us in a strange way. I told my wife that if they get out and come to us, then run home and call the police while I stay there and fight it out. I can out run my wife but in that situation I wouldn't. Thankfully the car was just the neighbors teens. I'm not sure if they were aware of what they did or if they were trying to scare us. I just knew from past neighborhoods I've lived and worked in, that it's not normal to ride up on people like that.

In the past my wife has been stalked by someone in the car. I didn't know how many people would jump out the car or if they would have guns. I just knew I couldn't run. Escape wasn't an option at least not before my wife was safe. 1, 2, or 5. Whoever jumped out of the car I knew it would be me by myself until my wife could get help.

If two people were attacking one of your family members. Would sit back and watch, pull out your phone and video tape, stand on the side and try to talk them out of it. I don't know what your physical abilities are now, but my abilities are still decent, so I know I would still be willing to get into it with multiple attackers. If it's just then may yes or maybe know. It just depends if I get caught off guard, by myself, or have to protect someone.

Pretty nuts what those 2 nerds did just for comic books??????? I bet it was for their own enjoyment b/c that's quite specific to try to sell them on ebay or something and get caught w/i a few days.

But training to fight vs. multiple attackers is very legit. It's not easy but I have both my kids and adults spar 2v1, 3v1. I have kids that are in my classes b/c they were jumped in school w/getting soccer ball kicked in the head, stomped, etc. (same with adults).

2nd video was vs. a gun; I wouldn't even risk getting shot & just injured for what, some cash that I usually carry? Let alone risk being in a wheelchair for life or even death. Just give them the $. Not sure if the old guy was trying to talk about it or just stunned & didn't give up the $ right away. Training/role playing to hand over the money & be submissive should also be a good idea.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I bet it was for their own enjoyment b/c that's quite specific to try to sell them on ebay or something and get caught w/i a few days.

I have a saying. I'm always glad that criminals never plan beyond the committing the crime, because that's what makes it possible to catch them.

But training to fight vs. multiple attackers is very legit. It's not easy but I have both my kids and adults spar 2v1, 3v1. I have kids that are in my classes b/c they were jumped in school w/getting soccer ball kicked in the head, stomped, etc.

I'm not saying that it's not legit, I'm saying that it's difficult. If a school can't teach a person to defend themselves on 1 vs 1, then my thoughts are that it's not going to be better in a 2 vs 1 scenario.

Multiple attack reality

A lot of schools miss the reality and I've seen some really horrible multiple attacker self defense training.

 

[jayoliver00]

I have a saying. I'm always glad that criminals never plan beyond the committing the crime, because that's what makes it possible to catch them.


I'm not saying that it's not legit, I'm saying that it's difficult. If a school can't teach a person to defend themselves on 1 vs 1, then my thoughts are that it's not going to be better in a 2 vs 1 scenario.

Multiple attack reality

A lot of schools miss the reality and I've seen some really horrible multiple attacker self defense training.

There's def. no guarantees.

The best training is almost always to train to become a fighter, w/lots of sparring and at times, up to full power for the KO.

But then, there's going to def. be brain damage. I mean I can't have little kids getting brain damaged just to prepare for something that may never happen....and now they're messed up in the head; esp. when their skulls aren't well developed yet...dangerous.

Same for adults. Many don't want to go that hard. I'll lose students left & right. Now if a kid was currently being threatened, then I would ramp up their training and it has worked; they've busted up their bullies & don't get picked on further. I currently have a father who asking me to hit his 15 y/o son in the head a lot harder b/c he's getting beatup in high school. And I'm dropping him already with body shots & lots of sparring where he can try to knock me out (I'm just going light to his head). Dad is still a great guy but you know, he's from the 'hood & did some time, so respect is a huge thing w/him.

 

[JowGaWolf]

But then, there's going to def. be brain damage. I mean I can't have little kids getting brain damaged just to prepare for something that may never happen....and now they're messed up in the head; esp. when their skulls aren't well developed yet...dangerous.

This is what makes it difficult. I can put more strength and power into my grappling than I can in my striking. Things that I would do in a real fighting, I'm not going to do in training. I don't know anyone who does striking at 100% power in training and even those who did no longer train that way.

I treasure footwork beyond everything thing else because it's one thing that can be done at 100% effectiveness and 100% effort and it doesn't require a lot of force to stress one's footwork.

I currently have a father who asking me to hit his 15 y/o son in the head a lot harder b/c he's getting beatup in high school.

That's nuts. That's not going to help him lol. The problem isn't taking shot to the head. The problem is that he took a shot to the head in the first place instead of covering, blocking, or avoiding the head shot in the first place lol.

And I'm dropping him already with body shots & lots of sparring where he can try to knock me out (I'm just going light to his head).

Yeah this is good especially the body shots. It's possible to make the body strong but not the head. I often ask people to punch at my head just so I can keep fresh in my mind what an incoming punch looks like.

 

[Darren]

One hurt is less likely to fight back, so breaking A wrists and/or using A wrists to throw into B take out C. If A wrists is broken then stomped on then your down to B and C. Of course there are many variables one has to think of before hand. Perpetual vision comes in handy! If possible never fight surrounded use environment if possible! Example your out in the open area with a 900 pound bull move into a area where there is something between you and the bull, trees, farm equipment, broken down tractor etc. if your bob cat hunting never walk amongst trees always walk along the base of cliffs as close as possible so as not to be ambushed be very wary of corners and carrying a big heavy staff is very useful a shotgun and/or 30 30 is much more useful!!!!!

 

[jayoliver00]

This is what makes it difficult. I can put more strength and power into my grappling than I can in my striking. Things that I would do in a real fighting, I'm not going to do in training. I don't know anyone who does striking at 100% power in training and even those who did no longer train that way.

I treasure footwork beyond everything thing else because it's one thing that can be done at 100% effectiveness and 100% effort and it doesn't require a lot of force to stress one's footwork.

Very true. Hard sparring per my rules is up to 100% full power for the knock down or knockout. Almost a full fight w/the main diff. being that when your sparring partner is on Q-street or wobbly legs, etc..., you don't keep going like if it was a ring/cage fight; you let him recover or you end the round on your own. This hard sparring is not often, just sometimes; esp. when prepping for a fight. I also have modified hard sparring: ie. hard punches to the body only, and/or legs only, etc.

That's nuts. That's not going to help him lol. The problem isn't taking shot to the head. The problem is that he took a shot to the head in the first place instead of covering, blocking, or avoiding the head shot in the first place lol.

Exactly, and I told you about this situation b/c it's happening right now; and I'm asking you for help & input as a Black man. I'm not Black and this dude is (so maybe you can see something that I'm missing) + he's trusting me with all of his 3 sons (which I told him is an honor for me). He's from the 'hood and did hard times but now w/a Masters & successful with a family. The 15y/o may be autistic (ima ask the father), b/c he's very awkward esp. w/his coordination. I've taught autistic kids & have trained w/a few autist adults (whom many people at the gym wanted to knockout...b/c they didn't behave normally)....which prob. explains why he's being targeted at school; kids zero in on such. I can see the signs/differences.

Anyway, the Dad wants to bring his kids to a Boxing gym in the 'hood where they'll go a lot harder & often. I told him, those gyms will get him tough quickly to take head shots but will cause more damage in the short & long term. More "heart" but his skills will only improve a little, to spar like that. I was trained like that when I first started, wasted a lot of my brain cells. I've been doing extra sparring sessions just to help his kids...bringing in my adult students. The Dad would whisper to them, go harder on my sons LOL; I only found out b/c my students snitched.

If you have time, what do you think I should do? I mean these punks have done things such as robbing him of his new shoes for school & posted photos on IG about it so it's all over school. He fought them twice already and he & they were all suspended twice. I think the 3rd time = expulsion. We don't even live in the 'hood; it's the freakin' suburbs of one of the richer counties of the whole country. The HS is like 3 miles from me & was where the richer kids went to when I was in school.