Sparring

[Master of Blades]

I noticed in Judo Kids thread that there was a load of differant views for Sparring and so on. Does your style do sparring and if so what kinda sparring is it? And if it doesnt do it then why not, how else do you find out if it works in combat? What are your own personal versions of sparring as well?

In Kali we do a little sparring with the Padded Sticks, me and my Teacher tried it with the normal Escrima sticks but gave up after our forearms where black and blue, which is fun and allows us to try out all the locks and defenses while really whacking the other guy. Its stings but when you do Kali for long enough your arms are really pretty tough. My personal version of sparring is simple. One of one, first to tap loses. Only rules I use is no full contact to the face or balls and when the person taps you let go immediantly. I dislike the point sparring stuff for no real reason other then tapping is more satisfying and a lot more even sided. Say a kicker goes up against a grappler in point sparring, the kicker has the advantage of the distance AND the fact that he can get points while the grappler cant on the floor. Thats my opinion anyway. Oh yeah, I also have another rule. The winner is the winner, no bad losing and NO losing your temper. :asian:

 

[jfarnsworth]

I haven't actually sparred in quite a while. The sparring class is on a different night than my regular class. I do believe though as much as I hate to admit that point sparring does have merit. Sometimes you do need the game of tag. This develops fast reflexes, quickness in striking and so forth. I orignally came from a school where there wasn't any point sparring until much later on. We trained in a garage with gloves and foot pads. When you started you were under the impression if someone came out bloody then, well that just happened. There were black eyes, bloody lips, very few broken bones but this seperated who was to stay and who wouldn't. I also like the ground fighting until someone taps out.

 

[sweeper]

I don't think there are any "hard" rules except don't try to cause realy dammage and if you do it they will do it back. most of the time we do stand up sparring with boxing gloves, rules usualy decided by the fighters, most common rules are no feet no shots to the head both of the above or all in fighting, we use sparring more as a drill or perhaps a training tool to target weaknesses than as an all out competition, we don't realy have winners or loosers, when someone goes down or taps we break and start over, when someone is to tired they sub out and someone elses either takes their place or a two new figters come in. We also do two on three and two on one and two on two, 2v3 is to help they 2 develop teem work when outnumbered, 2v2 is just teamwork, 2v1 is help the 1 develop better movement and periferal vision. There is also a sort of "gentelmen's rule" of no kicking the groin.. it actualy isn't so much a rule but a derivation of the second rule stated above.. no one wants to get hit in the groin so no one trys to give their opponant a reason to do so, but at the same time accidents always happen side step an upward thai kick in the wrong direction and you will have a ring shaped bruis from your cup

 

[Astra]

Generally we do Lat-Sao where you get to try out most everything you have learned with no hard punches done - light contact or tapping. Then once or twice a month we put on head and fist protection and just go after eachother. (Though we use feet, knees, elbows AND fists ) Suggestably not go after breaking someones ribs with a knee kick etc, but you often have quite a few black spots after it and minor damage. We wear cups doing it and the plexus and neck are off limits.

 

[J-kid]

My rant on sparring, First off i am tired of this TMA stuff where they end up saying sparring dosnt prove anything because on the street its diffrent there are people there are weapons and objects which get in the way. First off what TMA or MMA can really deal with a gun (NONE). Also no martial art is really ment for multiple oppents. Lets just face the facts more then 2 and your in pritty deep water. Also if MMAs had lost in the UFC the TMA would use it to promote it self over MMA arts as MMA has done to Promote itself Over TMA. Some TMA do work and do have full sparring but some dont. People say Sparring dosnt prove anything, What dos, What would people like a full contact fight with people carrying weapons do they really think they will do better then people that do MMA. With out sparring there is no way to truely test your skills without going in a real life or death situation. So befor you spout stuff please try sparring out for your self. The true way to test your system is to fight people at the top of your system then fight people that are out of your system. This my 4 cents. If you really believe without testing your skills and system your ready for the street you are some day gonna get a rude awaking.

 

[J-kid]

You need NHB sparring to test your self. Be real take the test and beat the best. Also three step sparring isnt real sparring at least to me.

 

[J-kid]

Forgot to mention my veiws on point sparring.
Its a ok way to spar yet it truely isnt the test NHB is the real way. Point sparring dosnt truely work the same as regular NHB sparring because you are aiming at a goal that isnt really testing your skills at much not to mention the rules keep it safe and alot of the adereilin is not added in to the mix. Like in judo sparring there are rules that make so you cant strike and things like that. which is in all point sparring systems like TKD.

Trust me get a little bit of gear (or dont) and do some Full contact sparring you will be glade you did.

 

[J-kid]

Ahh on first post i meant cant deal with a gun, It says can but i meant cant.


Also so people say this. Sparring dosnt prove anything because there are gloves and rules and protection. If thats the way you spar realize that is because you want to be able to do it the next day. Also You can have No rules No equipment and on pathment if you want to make it realer and bite the bullet.

But i usally like to spar Medium with some gear Mouth piece and UFC style gloves to avoid cutting my oppents face and vice versa.

Also its a good idea to use a cup.

Knee pads and Shin guards are all up to you like elbow and head gear.

I go with the basic gloves and mouth peice if anything.

But if i had to go with rules i would say no eye gouging because it can be painful and blinding. But you can do that as well, I know in mexico a cop was talking with me about how they pay martial artist and street thugs to fight it out to the death for 20 grand.
Thats some crazy **** but they also have real under ground fight clubs around.

 

[J-kid]

I do indeed like to spar because of sparring i was able to under stand what kind of stuff happens in fights. It was a real eye opener the aderinlin dump and everything. I found i had a real talent in fighting and really injoy it. I only really like fighting other fighters that are skilled. I think Judo and grappling tournments are fun like wrestling. Pritty much i injoy all conbat sports. Pankration/UFC is my favorite. But i will injoy reading what you guys think.

 

[bart]

First off what TMA or MMA can really deal with a gun (NONE).

If you think of the gun from a distance of more than two feet, then you're right. Nothing to do but military style: "I am up...the enemy sees me...I am down...the enemy sees me...I am up...etc. in a zig zag fashion and hope not to get blown away.

But if you're within grappling distance then you have a chance. At that range, it's a weapon like any other, except it can only do damage in one direction. If you can control the weapon and attack with other parts of your body while staying out of the line of fire, then you will be all right.

Also no martial art is really ment for multiple oppents. Lets just face the facts more then 2 and your in pritty deep water.

Dead wrong. You just haven't come across it. I've dealt with multiples on more than one occassion and my TMA (Wing Chun) helped me through. Those were real life situations. They got hurt, I didn't. Talk to your teacher about it or read some books or better yet, work with some friends on it. You do some sparring NHB style. Work with more than one person and do it intelligently and you will see. But if that fails, ask people who know and then work on it some more on your own. In grappling it will be tougher, but in stand up fighting, fighting more than one person can and does work.

In Kali we do a little sparring

I do Eskrima as well and we do a bit of sparring. Fighting that way is an eye opener. If you don't have a weapon, and you're opponent really knows how to use one, you're in trouble. We spar in varying levels of armor and protection, but always with a regular rattan stick that's a little thinner than our daily training sticks.

 

[J-kid]

Yeah right you have to run across panzys not to get hurt in a situation with more then one person, What if they all tackle you hold you down and then start punching what can you do more then one person. There are people that are untrained and easy to deal with but the problem comes along when you find your self fighting skilled fighters all around yourself.

 

[bart]

I think you need to join the Army. But first try brushing up on your reading skills or you'll get a crap assignment when you do join up.

You wrote:

What if they all tackle you hold you down and then start punching what can you do more then one person.

I wrote before that:

In grappling it will be tougher, but in stand up fighting, fighting more than one person can and does work.

Well...the first thing you can do is not fight them on the ground. Focus on escape and getting past them rather than slugging it out NHB style. That will work in most situations. Then reposition yourself. A multiple grapple will suck for the outnumbered guy that's true. But if you are aware of what's going on you can take steps to make it not go to the ground.

you have to run across panzys not to get hurt in a situation with more then one person...There are people that are untrained and easy to deal with but the problem comes along when you find your self fighting skilled fighters all around yourself.

There's some truth to that. But also, skilled fighters often can't work together. Unskilled people are also hard to deal with because they sometimes don't know what will hurt them so they take crazy risks and sacrifice shots. Also they don't know when to stop so they can be tough.

Try working with some friends on the multiple attacker thing trying not to fight on the ground, but just to get passed them. Then try generaling the fighting area so that the opponents aren't able to hit you en masse. Work on that before you knee jerk any more. You'll give better answers and you'll learn something.

 

[J-kid]

I agree fighting multple on the ground is a real bad idea. But using some throws may help if they are on you. There is some truth to skilled fighters not working together they will start working to gether after a short bit somthing like you take him from behind as i rush him might happen.

 

[KennethKu]

For heavan sake, train to put some bite into your punches and kicks. Learn what to hit that can neurtalize your attacker with one strike.

 

[J-kid]

I am.

 

[Master of Blades]

Correct me if I am wrong but I thought the point of Martial Arts was to be able to defend yourself in REAL LIFE situations. Everytime I have been attacked or one of my friends have they usually out number you But in my opinion you still have the advantage. For one they will not be used to working and fighting together as a team and once things get tough the groups tend to break up and do there own thing anyway. Two they probably wont be skilled Martial Artist because very few (But still more then I like) actually do Martial Arts to go and mug and attack people.

Bart,
I have to agree it is a whole lot differant to fighting in any type of way. We do it with a normal stick with a slight bit of padding around it, no armour, untill we are asked to stop or our teacher feels that hit would have knocked that person out. The most interesting thing was when he showed us that anything could be used as a weapon. He asked me to go to the table and get him a magazine. He rolled it up and told me to attack him with two sticks. I went down like a light within a minute. I'm now more aware of my surroundings and so on when Im out. The only problem with Kali, Escrima and Arnis in my opinion is the fact you do NEED sparring. When your going through all the drills and so on its at a reasonable speed and so on but if you notice when your sparring its a LOT faster and a lot harder to catch openings and gather techniques.

:asian:

 

[TkdWarrior]

Correct me if I am wrong but I thought the point of Martial Arts was to be able to defend yourself in REAL LIFE situations. Everytime I have been attacked or one of my friends have they usually out number you But in my opinion you still have the advantage.

let me tell u my observation
before getting into MA i had a fight against 4-5 guys of my own size i was able to defend myself... n after learning MA i m having problems dealing with multiple oppnts... now go figure

the only thing is that i don't wanted to get hurt that day n used every bull ***** method to save myself(bricks, used one of pipes)....

from my understanding of an art i guess MA first make u unlearn any bad/good habit which u hav aquired over the years n then make u learn good/bad habbits... that's why MA require more efforts n time to get into that Mode(Self Defense)...

going with thread...
well sparring does teach u some good habbits but it hav downfall too... even u r doing full contact(with pads) u don't tend to hit with 100 intent behind ur strikes because noone wants to hurt his sparring partners... i m not totally against sparring but it should be done with lots of things in mind ie. SD, enviornments etc etc

-TkdWarrior-

 

[thesensei]

but i enjoy sport style point sparring! it's not all i do, and i know it doesn't do much for real combat preparation, but i enjoy it! some people like golf...i'd rather point spar! i do also do some medium and full contact continuous sparring, with just basic rules, like no groin, throat, or back strikes. other than that, we'll sweep, and go to the ground along with basic striking. i guess i just like it all!!

jb

 

[Master of Blades]

Alright, to all you people who say that even in full contact sparring your still not hitting as hard as you should be I have a few things for you to think about.

First it depends on the person, My dads Hapkido class was Full Blown Contact and they had at least 2 hospital visits each week. Now if you think that they are training 6 days a week then thats quite a lot. Some people have the killer instinct where they treat sparring like it is a real fight and there first instinct is to defend themselves however possible. Then you get people like me, who fight to win, but I'm not out to break someones leg in a leglock for no reason.

Secondly, NO-ONE, except maybe Judo-Kid from what I've read, claims that Sparring of any sort can compare to real life. BUT, I will tell you that it is THE closest thing to real life. If I wanted to prepare myself for real life, I would do a number of things, including precision, drills and sparring etc. But I dont, all I'm saying is that sparring is a great way to improve your skill in most areas in preparation for real life.

Thats my feelings anyway......:asian:

 

[KennethKu]

Except that when you get into a real fight, your adrenaline starts pumping, your field of vision narrows, your mind racing a million miles an hour thinking of everything under the sun or going blank, except that you forget all your techniques, and time stands still. When you spar, you are relaxed and having fun. B/c no one is about to spill your teeth all over the place and no one is going to smash your nuts nor cave your face in. In real fighting, you don't know if his thug friends are going to join the fray or jump you and you don't know if he might draw a blade on you or carry a gun. Furthermore, he is probably unlikely to call you out to get you into stance and start a duel. You are probably in a pissing match and then Voila! left hooks, right hooks raining down on you like drain drops in a hurricane. Next thing you know, you are kissing the floor while he is practicing football with your stomach. Hey, at least you didn't get stabbed or shot! Count your blessing.