Intro to headbutts for grapplers

[Tony Dismukes]

Some material from my class last Thursday.

 

[Jared Traveler]

Good solid grappling instructions for sure. My experience with Lethwei headbutts is the little bit I was taught in Burma/Myanmar.

I was way back in the jungle when I met a guy who ran an extremely spartan gym. Bamboo house, wooden weight bench with concrete weights, one old punching bag and a few pieces of worn out sparring gear. But he trained young men two times a day. All training was conducted under two shade trees on dirt/rocky ground.

He actually wasn't an expert martial artists, he knew far more about real combat with weapons than most humans ever will though. But he had a former professional Lethwei coach and former Lethwei champion training with and for him.

They did show me some basics on headbutts. Mostly what part of your head to hit with, where to hit them, and at what angle generally. A lot of what they showed me was smaller movements and more precision strikes. Probably to reduce injuries to themselves.

But with the language barrier and the fact they were more interested in learning Jujitsu from me, I was unfortunately only able to get a basic understanding.

With that said, the Champion's head certainly looked like he had taken way to many headbutts over the years.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I had some additional tidbits that didn't get onto video regarding variations on how to set up headbutts, but since my top priority was showing students how to avoid getting hit by them, the same principles applied - control the opponent's head and keep your own in an advantageous position.

 

[skribs]

I'm going to change my opinion on some of the advice we gave you. I think that for you, 100% doing the voice lines during the demonstration is the way to go.

The joy that I saw in the first few videos when you're talking about martial arts...we don't see that in a voiceover.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I'm going to change my opinion on some of the advice we gave you. I think that for you, 100% doing the voice lines during the demonstration is the way to go.

The joy that I saw in the first few videos when you're talking about martial arts...we don't see that in a voiceover.

Yeah, I have to read from a script in order to fit everything in with the timing of what’s happening in the video. I’m not a good enough actor to put in the same enthusiasm that way. I just did it in that one section because there was so much background noise from the gym at that moment that I would have had to shout to be heard.

Fortunately I figured out how to bump up the overall video volume, so hopefully you can hear me without headphones.

 

[Jared Traveler]

Defensively elbows and headbutts are short range weapons. In Muay Thai this is why the basic boxing cover up doesn't work well. It allows your opponent to get closer and land elbows.

The Muay Thai "long guard" is designed to keep people from getting close to land short range strikes like elbows and would be a great initial defense for headbutts also.

Muay Thai practitioners are great at bridging the gap between long range and grappling range without getting hurt. Learning to use the Muay Thai long guard to transition into grappling range would be a valuable grappling skill.

This video is just one of many variations:

 

[JowGaWolf]

Some material from my class last Thursday.

@Tony Dismukes you were wondering if you and I were on the same page with low stance, in my case low horse stance. This is the same concept that I often talk about. The only difference is that my body is upright and which allows me to punch and to kick from this position. The height of the stance is relative to the height of my opponent. The shorter my opponent the lower I will need to go in order to use the same concept.

The only difference is that my body is upright and which allows me to punch and to kick from this position. It also allows me to use my guard to protect against punches and kicks.

The stance allows me to spring forward to punch or kick.

Not to high jack your thread. I just want to point it out because we had a conversation about it and you were sure if we were thinking the same thing in terms of stance level.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I'm going to change my opinion on some of the advice we gave you. I think that for you, 100% doing the voice lines during the demonstration is the way to go.

The joy that I saw in the first few videos when you're talking about martial arts...we don't see that in a voiceover.

I say use both. It kept my focus and didn't even miss the "joy" when I saw him lower his stance it reminded me of a conversation I had with him. When he showed some of the head control techniques, I remember how my MMA sparring partner tried to do the same and how much I didn't like it. It made me think of my training.

 

[JowGaWolf]

The Muay Thai "long guard" is designed to keep people from getting close to land short range strikes like elbows and would be a great initial defense for headbutts also.

This is pretty much what long guard does in general. A person is forced to deal with a long guard. If they ignore it, then the long guard can turn into an offensive weapon.

When I taught kung fu, it was a sin to not address the long guard. The truth is that the hand of the long guard is often more than half way to a target. All it needs is a quick step forward to land either a fist, elbow, forearm or initiate grappling.

 

[Jared Traveler]

This is pretty much what long guard does in general. A person is forced to deal with a long guard. If they ignore it, then the long guard can turn into an offensive weapon.

When I taught kung fu, it was a sin to not address the long guard. The truth is that the hand of the long guard is often more than half way to a target. All it needs is a quick step forward to land either a fist, elbow, forearm or initiate grappling.

Just when I think I understand it, my instructors tweak some small detail, or show me a knew variation on application or follow up.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

@Tony Dismukes you were wondering if you and I were on the same page with low stance, in my case low horse stance. This is the same concept that I often talk about. The only difference is that my body is upright and which allows me to punch and to kick from this position. The height of the stance is relative to the height of my opponent. The shorter my opponent the lower I will need to go in order to use the same concept.
View attachment 29567
The only difference is that my body is upright and which allows me to punch and to kick from this position. It also allows me to use my guard to protect against punches and kicks.
View attachment 29568

The stance allows me to spring forward to punch or kick.
View attachment 29569

Not to high jack your thread. I just want to point it out because we had a conversation about it and you were sure if we were thinking the same thing in terms of stance level.

Yeah, it's the same underlying concept, but the optimized application changes according to the context.

As you say, for a context where striking is present, then you want your body upright because that is much better for throwing and defending against punches and kicks. Meanwhile, the bent legs give you some stability and protection against takedowns.

In a pure wrestling context, your stance would be suboptimal. Tilting the body forward as I am in that screenshot allows you to get even lower with the same degree of bent legs. Furthermore, it sets up the spinal alignment for a more powerful shot, increases the chance of getting an advantageous head position in the clinch, and offers more protection against shots for the legs and hips. In a pure wrestling match, your front leg would be a prime target because it has only one hand for protection rather than two hands and a head.

In MMA, a common way for fighters to handle this dilemma is to maintain an upright stance while striking at a distance and then transition into a more leaning forward wrestling stance in the moment when they shoot for or defend against a takedown. Of course that can lead to a chess game of fakes and feints - for example, show the wrestling stance to make the opponent think a shot is coming and then pop back up for a strike.

BTW, there are few MMA fighters who will maintain a stance as low as yours while they are focusing on striking, but not too many. The problem is that it's very energy intensive, especially if you're trying to move quickly, and also it's more difficult to properly defend leg kicks. The people I see do it are mostly in the lighter weight classes, since some of them can maintain a continuous high energy output for a 15 or 25 minute fight. And even those guys don't stay there the entire fight - they shift back and forth from a low stance to a high one depending on the situation in the moment.

 

[JowGaWolf]

The problem is that it's very energy intensive, especially if you're trying to move quickly, and also it's more difficult to properly defend leg kicks.

I'm slowly learning the "How to" for these issue. The energy needed = get stronger legs and dynamic leg endurance. Mobility only becomes easy when this is at it's highest. Leg kicks seem to be a mixture of turning the shin bone into the kick or to shuffle forward at angle. There's a guy that comes to the gym every blue moon and he's got some nice lively kicks and he looks really comfortable with them. He seems kind of hype so I want to try this against him. I'm curious to see if he throws more or fewer kicks against me.