1mph over the Limit? 1000 Fine and 90 Suspension...

Cryozombie

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So Illinois is Begining a Camera Enforcement in ALL Highway work zones... regardless of the presence of workers. Get caught going 46mph, and its a 375 dollar fine. Get caught going 46 TWICE and its a 1000 fine and an automatic suspension of your licence for 90 days.

No questions asked.

Now, what I wonder is this:

While I understand that "speeding is speeding" is 1mph over the limit realistic? Is that precision digital radar camera FAIR compared to having to judge that 1 mile point on my old analog radial speedometer?

My solution, of course, is for everyone to drive 5mph thru these zones. Not only will it grind traffic to a halt on the best of days, but it will ensure the state generates no revenue and loses money from all these fancy pieces of equipment WE paid for, AND will have the added benefit of protecting the lives of the workers in these speed zones.
 

Bob Hubbard

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I think its more a "we need cash so lets really screw the people" thing.
 

Senjojutsu

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I think its more a "we need cash so lets really screw the people" thing.
Because when the perception (reality) of traffic enforcement evolves from overall public safety and becomes more of revenue cash flow - then are the cops' professionalism being compromised?

But then stories of traffic ticket quotas have been around for years, and with the advent of email - smoking gun documentation now abounds.
 
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Bob Hubbard

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I think a zero tolerance policy that ignores the effects of wind, weather, and road conditions, as well as the inaccuracies of the speedometer, while imposing huge penalty for now compliance is questionable. But then again, I take after the cop I met in court. He insisted that every morning he had not only his radar gun professionally calibrated, but the speedometer on his patrol car as well. I take it 1 better, I check my exhaust every afternoon.
 

Ray

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I think a zero tolerance policy...
In manufacturing, commerce and other things reliant upon measurements the measuring tools are periodically calibrated to ensure their accuracy....the required measurement is usually stated with a tolerance that the measuring device can measure with the necessary precision...the desired measurement is usually stated in such a way that the process (man-power, materials and machine) can reliable obtain and repeat (e.g. 1/4" +/- .020)

In order to have an unquestionable standard for speed on the highway:
1. We would have to calibrate our speedometers to some stated accuracy periodically.
2. Speed limits laws would have to be written with a tolerance of some sort (say 65 mph +/- 5 mph {or even +0, -10 if there is a top limit but no bottom limit}).
3. As a driver, we would want to assure ourselves that we were within specifications, so we might say "that's a 65 mph speed limit, I better go 60."

It's so unworkable. Everyone usually wants to get where there going as fast as they can (except for the old people in front of me), and we only observe the limits when we know there's a cop around. I haven't calibrated a speedometer ever, but have always added 5 mph to the posted limit with the thought "I'm sure the cops will give me 5 over the limit." If we did say the limit was 65 mph +/-5 mph, we'd all be going at least 70 anyway.
 

jks9199

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So Illinois is Begining a Camera Enforcement in ALL Highway work zones... regardless of the presence of workers. Get caught going 46mph, and its a 375 dollar fine. Get caught going 46 TWICE and its a 1000 fine and an automatic suspension of your licence for 90 days.

No questions asked.

Now, what I wonder is this:

While I understand that "speeding is speeding" is 1mph over the limit realistic? Is that precision digital radar camera FAIR compared to having to judge that 1 mile point on my old analog radial speedometer?

My solution, of course, is for everyone to drive 5mph thru these zones. Not only will it grind traffic to a halt on the best of days, but it will ensure the state generates no revenue and loses money from all these fancy pieces of equipment WE paid for, AND will have the added benefit of protecting the lives of the workers in these speed zones.
I see lots of problems with that law, as you're describing it. No method of speed determination is so accurate that there's not an error factor. Additionally, how do they know WHO is driving?

Most of the camera enforcement statutes that I'm aware of treat the offense as a civil penalty, like a parking ticket. It's levied against the owner of the vehicle, and they generally allow the owner to file an affidavit or otherwise state that they weren't driving (usually under oath of some sort), and the charges are dismissed.
 
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Cryozombie

Cryozombie

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I see lots of problems with that law, as you're describing it. No method of speed determination is so accurate that there's not an error factor. Additionally, how do they know WHO is driving?

Most of the camera enforcement statutes that I'm aware of treat the offense as a civil penalty, like a parking ticket. It's levied against the owner of the vehicle, and they generally allow the owner to file an affidavit or otherwise state that they weren't driving (usually under oath of some sort), and the charges are dismissed.

As the officer who sent the warning to me put it:

"The State already has two camera vans on line issuing tickets 24/7 in work zones with speed limits lowered to 45 MPH. Photos of both the Driver's face and License plate are taken."

So...
 

MA-Caver

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Most states I know do have a flexible allowance of +5 or even as much as +10 mph over to keep traffic flowing and as long as it is flowing and no one is being a maniac then the Highway Patrolmen are alright with it... or most of them are.
Ticketing for 1mph over is stupid since it's nearly impossible to keep consistent pressure on the gas pedal and maintain that speed. You're always going to fluctuate going up and down hills and round curves and so forth, you will speed up to pass someone who is going 43 mph and etc. etc.
I understand going slower than usual when in construction zones because of the hazards that are usually not there during open roads and I'm fine with that... always have been... trying to maintain exact speeds is still not feasible or logical. some folks are going to be going a little faster and some a little slower.
Might as well regulate how fast/slow we walk on the sidewalk for pete's sake... or how fast we type on the keyboards while at home (based on keystroke speed) and so on and so on.

IDOT needs to get realistic.
 

jks9199

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Not only that -- but it's well within any reasonable error on a speedometer. If I tried to charge someone with 1 over, the judge would probably explain my stupidity to me in open court. Our GOs give the driver 10 over when running radar...

Believe me, I understand the concern about work zones and move over laws. But enforcement has to be reasonable, too.
 

rosworms

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in minnesota, speeding cameras are now illegal. it was found to be un-constitutional as people are innocent until proven guilty and the ticket is sent in the mail to the owner of the vehicle and too often it was someone else driving.
 

Brian R. VanCise

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Well since I drive through Illinois pretty regularly to go and train, teach and hang out with my brother in law I will really need to watch my driving very carefully.
 

Drac

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But then stories of traffic ticket quotas have been around for years, and with the advent of email - smoking gun documentation now abounds.

The working word here is stories...
 
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Cryozombie

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Well since I drive through Illinois pretty regularly to go and train, teach and hang out with my brother in law I will really need to watch my driving very carefully.

OT, you should come do some training with us when you are down here sometime Brian...
 
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Cryozombie

Cryozombie

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The working word here is stories...

I have been told point blank by 2 cops that they do NOT have quotas. They simply don't keep their jobs if they do not write enough tickets.

*I* take that as "No set number, just make sure you do a lot"

in minnesota, speeding cameras are now illegal. it was found to be un-constitutional as people are innocent until proven guilty and the ticket is sent in the mail to the owner of the vehicle and too often it was someone else driving.

Actually... all the towns around here have been installing red light cameras... and then One town went... "huh, its not making the intersections safer, and its generating a ton of false positives from people making legal turns on red" and they had the chutzpah to pull the cameras despite the extra revenue. Bravo for them.

Now a few other towns are getting sketchy about them as well, I read.

And here, the ticket for those goes to the owner of the Vehicle not the driver, the State claims if you were not driving, it's your responsibility to collect the money from whoever was... which is causing a problem, because several Pace Bus Drivers in the city are routinley running red lights, and when they are interviewed on the news, they say "I'm not the owner of the vehicle, the city is" and the city has to pay themselves... Heh.
 

Tez3

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It's easy,you just get satnav which warns of 'safety' cameras and jobs done you don't get caught or you could just drive within the speed limit!

I never see the problem if you drive safely and within the limits.
 

Archangel M

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But then stories of traffic ticket quotas have been around for years, and with the advent of email - smoking gun documentation now abounds.

Like Drac said.

While most cops are expected to write tickets...its part of doing your job...I dont know any agencies around me that have "quotas" or would have the ability to terminate solely on failure to write traffic summons. The fact of the matter is, most cops could waste their entire shift writing valid tickets. The number of people not wearing seat-belts or making illegal turns/lane changes alone could take up a shift.....
 

Senjojutsu

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The working word here is stories...

Yes, and it doesn't take much effort to find them

http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/21/2130.asp

But what really burns me about this OP link is the "precision" that elected officials and nameless hacks try to impose on the taxpaying citizenry - but they are nothing but bumbling idiots regarding meeting their basic duties on governmental fundamentals.
:angry:

Just listening - in my neck of the woods - of the daily dysfunctional antics of the Massachusetts, Rhode Island and New York State legislative bodies - it gives democracy a bad name.
 

Archangel M

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While it sounds bad...the bottom line is that people do speed and getting ticked for it is legal.....and its part of an LEO's job to issue traffic tickets. If I received enough complaints from the citizenry that people were speeding on a particular road I would assign officers to write more tickets there. This story just offends people because the gvt. is looking at it as revenue (which it is)...it doesnt change the fact that speeding is a valid traffic offense.
 

MJS

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So Illinois is Begining a Camera Enforcement in ALL Highway work zones... regardless of the presence of workers. Get caught going 46mph, and its a 375 dollar fine. Get caught going 46 TWICE and its a 1000 fine and an automatic suspension of your licence for 90 days.

No questions asked.

Now, what I wonder is this:

While I understand that "speeding is speeding" is 1mph over the limit realistic? Is that precision digital radar camera FAIR compared to having to judge that 1 mile point on my old analog radial speedometer?

My solution, of course, is for everyone to drive 5mph thru these zones. Not only will it grind traffic to a halt on the best of days, but it will ensure the state generates no revenue and loses money from all these fancy pieces of equipment WE paid for, AND will have the added benefit of protecting the lives of the workers in these speed zones.

Is it reasonable to ask people to slow down while going thru a work zone? Absolutely!!! Depending on the conditions, the speed will need to be adjusted, and it should be common sense. Of course, we all know that there are many drivers out there that have no common sense.

Is it reasonable to fine someone that amount of money for 1mph over the limit? Of course not. Think about it. Next time you're out driving on a back road, drive exactly what the speed limit says. Now, think about how many times we actually drive that. I certainly don't drive exactly 30 in a 30mph zone. On the other hand, I don't drive 50 thru it either. LOL.

I've spoken with many cops and gone on many ride alongs. We've done radar set ups, and pretty much every time, they'd give the person the benefit of the doubt and wait until someone was driving 7+mph over what the posted limit is. So, 37mph in a 30mph, providing everything was in check, would most likely get a verbal warning, maybe a written. 40, 45, 50+++++.....well, that should be obvious.

CT has talked about using cameras on the highways and on some roads, with mixed opinions. Seems to me that whats going on in your area is nothing more than a money making racket.
 

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