1mph over the Limit? 1000 Fine and 90 Suspension...

Ray

Master Black Belt
Joined
Dec 8, 2004
Messages
1,391
Reaction score
53
Location
Creston, IA
I have been told point blank by 2 cops that they do NOT have quotas. They simply don't keep their jobs if they do not write enough tickets.
There is a difference between a quota and a goal (or a target).
 
OP
Cryozombie

Cryozombie

Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Feb 11, 2003
Messages
9,998
Reaction score
206
There is a difference between a quota and a goal (or a target).

Thats what I said... No set number, (i.e. quota) just a requirement they do a lot.
 

Tames D

RECKLESS
MTS Alumni
Joined
Apr 18, 2006
Messages
5,133
Reaction score
665
Location
Los Angeles, CA
?

My solution, of course, is for everyone to drive 5mph thru these zones. Not only will it grind traffic to a halt on the best of days, but it will ensure the state generates no revenue and loses money from all these fancy pieces of equipment WE paid for.

This will only guarantee you a citation for driving too slow and they"ll still make some money off you.
icon12.gif
 

celtic_crippler

Senior Master
Joined
Jan 15, 2006
Messages
3,968
Reaction score
137
Location
Airstrip One
So Illinois is Begining a Camera Enforcement in ALL Highway work zones... regardless of the presence of workers. Get caught going 46mph, and its a 375 dollar fine. Get caught going 46 TWICE and its a 1000 fine and an automatic suspension of your licence for 90 days.

No questions asked.

Now, what I wonder is this:

While I understand that "speeding is speeding" is 1mph over the limit realistic? Is that precision digital radar camera FAIR compared to having to judge that 1 mile point on my old analog radial speedometer?

My solution, of course, is for everyone to drive 5mph thru these zones. Not only will it grind traffic to a halt on the best of days, but it will ensure the state generates no revenue and loses money from all these fancy pieces of equipment WE paid for, AND will have the added benefit of protecting the lives of the workers in these speed zones.

There's no way. No equipment operates at 100%, I don't see how they could enforce that within 1mph.

I think its more a "we need cash so lets really screw the people" thing.

Ain't it always?
 

LuckyKBoxer

Master Black Belt
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Messages
1,390
Reaction score
39
While I think the speed limits in America are too low, the fact of the matter is this is for contruction zones, regardless if workers are present, and the law has been in effect for quite a while, and it has also had a big success so far in lowering the death rate of highway construction workers.

This is not for all highways in all parts of highways.
I guess if you think the highway construction workers lives are worthless then you can complain about that 1 mile an hour over the speed limit thing...
but hey I am going to support the highway workers...
You know the laws, you know the fines, you dont like it then you can try to chnge it, but be damned sure that if you get caught you will pay. What is so hard about that?

its like the 25 mph zones at schools and senior citizen homes.. but I guess you probably also feel they don't deserve a certain level of safety either.

Personally I also feel its more about the income then saving the lives of construction workers.... since all they have to do is actually close the highway down while the workers are doing their thing to insure 100% safety from highway drivers.....
Of course I guess having a certain level of convience is worth a few lives, plus the Unions so far up these politicans asses I am surprised they don't change the names of politicians to hand puppets..
 
Last edited by a moderator:

jks9199

Administrator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
23,563
Reaction score
3,914
Location
Northern VA
Ticket "quotas" are something completely different from the speed enforcement cameras.

Most agencies I know don't have quotas. However, many do expect patrol and motor officers to meet performance goals -- or be able to show why they didn't. Considering that, depending on agency policies, the officer's supervisor may not see them all day -- or longer! -- performance stats are a tool to know what that officer is doing with their work day. If the officer is busy in other ways, like training, or filling in at dispatch, or just working more involved cases, and their ticket numbers aren't great... so be it. You know what they're doing. But if they aren't tied up on calls for service, or working... looking for a couple tickets or self-initiated arrests isn't a big deal. If the numbers aren't extreme, that is. For example, one I know of is just a little more than one ticket, or written warning, per day. If an officer there can't do that -- they just ain't working unless they're real busy otherwise.

The speed cameras? Not so happy about them. Especially if the sensitivity is too low -- lack well below any reasonable error tolerance of the device or speedometer.
 

Deaf Smith

Master of Arts
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
1,722
Reaction score
85
I can see only one real solution when a government puts such an unfair laws as the speeding cameras and zero tolerance.

MASS CIVIAL DISOBEDIANCE! How? Drive SLOW. Yes get as many people to drive slow, well below the speed limit, even in perfect weither and jammed packed roads at rush hour. Even get a few others to block all the other lanes forcing eveyone to drive slow.

Nothing like zero revenue for $$ spent putting up the cameras to get them to stop.

This way you don't do anything they can arrest your for. Just obey the speed limit in mass!

Maybe get some of those Tea Party people to help, or even organizations like MADD.

Deaf
 

LuckyKBoxer

Master Black Belt
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Messages
1,390
Reaction score
39
I can see only one real solution when a government puts such an unfair laws as the speeding cameras and zero tolerance.

MASS CIVIAL DISOBEDIANCE! How? Drive SLOW. Yes get as many people to drive slow, well below the speed limit, even in perfect weither and jammed packed roads at rush hour. Even get a few others to block all the other lanes forcing eveyone to drive slow.

Nothing like zero revenue for $$ spent putting up the cameras to get them to stop.

This way you don't do anything they can arrest your for. Just obey the speed limit in mass!

Maybe get some of those Tea Party people to help, or even organizations like MADD.

Deaf

Thats a great idea, right up until the road rage incident that leaves people shot and bleeding, or worse dead.
Personally I do not see a big deal with having a policy put into place in a construction zone that is designed to save lives... It seems to be a pretty good compromise... the alternatives are what? Let people drive as fast as they want through the construction zone and kill the workers, or close off the area completely while the workers are doing their thing and put everyone out as opposed to the few people that either choose not to, or just that cant follow the rules anyways?
 

Archangel M

Senior Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
4,555
Reaction score
154
The 1 mph thing.....when the speed "limit" is 45 then "in theory" you are in violation at 46 mph.

Realistically, no cop is going to write, or is any radar/camera set up going to issue you, a summons for 46 mph. If I say that I give an 5-10 "buffer" on the limit before I make a stop than everybody will be doing 5-10 over...so I say "yeah 46 is speeding".

I highly doubt there will be many summons issued for 1 over...and HIGHY doubt anybody who takes a 1mph ticket to trial would ever lose.
 

CanuckMA

Master of Arts
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
1,726
Reaction score
57
Location
Toronto
I can see only one real solution when a government puts such an unfair laws as the speeding cameras and zero tolerance.

MASS CIVIAL DISOBEDIANCE! How? Drive SLOW. Yes get as many people to drive slow, well below the speed limit, even in perfect weither and jammed packed roads at rush hour. Even get a few others to block all the other lanes forcing eveyone to drive slow.

Nothing like zero revenue for $$ spent putting up the cameras to get them to stop.

This way you don't do anything they can arrest your for. Just obey the speed limit in mass!

Maybe get some of those Tea Party people to help, or even organizations like MADD.

Deaf


Driving below the speed limit, organized, on all lanes can be charged for impeding the flow of traffic.
 

LuckyKBoxer

Master Black Belt
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Messages
1,390
Reaction score
39
While I think the speed limits in America are too low, the fact of the matter is this is for contruction zones, regardless if workers are present, and the law has been in effect for quite a while, and it has also had a big success so far in lowering the death rate of highway construction workers.

This is not for all highways in all parts of highways.
I guess if you think the highway construction workers lives are worthless then you can complain about that 1 mile an hour over the speed limit thing...
but hey I am going to support the highway workers...
You know the laws, you know the fines, you dont like it then you can try to chnge it, but be damned sure that if you get caught you will pay. What is so hard about that?

its like the 25 mph zones at schools and senior citizen homes.. but I guess you probably also feel they don't deserve a certain level of safety either.

Personally I also feel its more about the income then saving the lives of construction workers.... since all they have to do is actually close the highway down while the workers are doing their thing to insure 100% safety from highway drivers.....
Of course I guess having a certain level of convience is worth a few lives, plus the Unions so far up these politicans asses I am surprised they don't change the names of politicians to hand puppets..

LOL someone gave me negative reputation for this? WOW I guess someone is a diehard union member or politician /shrug LOL
 
OP
Cryozombie

Cryozombie

Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Feb 11, 2003
Messages
9,998
Reaction score
206
LOL someone gave me negative reputation for this? WOW I guess someone is a diehard union member or politician /shrug LOL

Oh, did I forget to sign that, my bad. That "ding" was for assuming that I feel a persons life is worth less than being able to drive an extra 1mph since I complained about it. You will excuse me if I found that accusation to be a total crock.

First of all... if I hit a worker at 45, are you saying its much better than if I do it at 46? Maybe we should all go 44 then? Truthfully, the argument over the 1mph has NOTHING to do with the saftey of workers, it has everything to do with the fact spedometers vary from vehicle to vehicle, device to device within reasonable tolerances and what reads as 46 to you might read as 45 to me, and 47 to Someone else. This is the reason I feel we need PEOPLE to do this kind of enforcement, so they can make the judgement whether or not saftey was an issue. A Camera cannot do that.
 
OP
Cryozombie

Cryozombie

Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Feb 11, 2003
Messages
9,998
Reaction score
206
And futhermore... if it was TRULEY about the saftey of the workers, and NOT about generating revenue, then it would be more like Indiana where the signs in the construction zones read "45mph when workers are present"... and the REAL mandate should be a 350 dollar ticket for having that cell phone glued to your head while driving thru them. They should make them "Cell Free Zones" instead.

I mean, seriously, I can't tell you how many oblivious ****s I see Texting while driving.
 

arnisador

Sr. Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Aug 28, 2001
Messages
44,573
Reaction score
456
Location
Terre Haute, IN
Speeding is a lot easier to detect than texting and such, unfortunately...neither are a good idea, but texting/calling is a huge problem in my opinion.
 

LuckyKBoxer

Master Black Belt
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Messages
1,390
Reaction score
39
Oh, did I forget to sign that, my bad. That "ding" was for assuming that I feel a persons life is worth less than being able to drive an extra 1mph since I complained about it. You will excuse me if I found that accusation to be a total crock.

First of all... if I hit a worker at 45, are you saying its much better than if I do it at 46? Maybe we should all go 44 then? Truthfully, the argument over the 1mph has NOTHING to do with the saftey of workers, it has everything to do with the fact spedometers vary from vehicle to vehicle, device to device within reasonable tolerances and what reads as 46 to you might read as 45 to me, and 47 to Someone else. This is the reason I feel we need PEOPLE to do this kind of enforcement, so they can make the judgement whether or not saftey was an issue. A Camera cannot do that.

Ya I still think its a pretty pathetic excuse, but whatever floats your boat there pal.
The point is its a highway, the normal speed limits are alot higher, the difference between 1 mph and 5 mph is not much, hell between 1 and 10 mph is not much considering humans can reach upwards of 20 mph on their own two feet... Come on seriously...

I did not assume anything about you specifically, I guess I worded it in a way that came across as accusatory rather then general. I will however say that I bet that their safety was not in your thinking at all when complaining about 1 mph. Maybe they should lower the speed limit to 35 and give you a 10 mph leeway.. Would that make you feel better? Because it would do the same thing they intended to do, while giving everyone a bit of an out there wouldn't it?
My point is pretty much that people like to ***** and moan about pretty petty things like 1mph when the entire purpose of this policy is to save construction workers lives.
I would buy into the whole revenue raising scheme thing if it was randomly done on any highway, or road.
However this specifically is done in a construction zone on the highways, and if the ones there are anything like the ones here in San Diego, then they have people working on them almost 24 hours a day.
It really comes across as someone who thinks they are too good to follow the rules, or that there should be valid excuses for not following the rules.
Ignorance is not an excuse, and people are responsible for their speedometers readings, not the police. There have been people who have gotten off on marginal tickets by going to court and proving their factory spec car with no modifications to the tires and wheels was off, so apparantly the court gives some leeway, but the majority of speedometers that show off, do so because people have no maintained the tires and wheels that were designed for the vehicle and that the speedometer was calibrated for.
I find it one thing to speed and know you speed and break the speed limit. I can understand wanting to use any excuse in the book to get off from having to pay a ticket or get a point on your record. I can even get lying about speeding once you get caught to try to get out. We could discuss all different sides of this.. How to get out of a ticket if you got one, if the policy actually saves lives or not, if its a revenue grab or not, and I am sure it can go on. I guess I believe the facts are the limit is 45 anything over is breaking the law and the penalty is a fine. The policy is in place in a specific area, based on studies done that prove that lives are saved.
So what would make you feel better about it?
Lower the speed limit to 35 with a 10mph buffer?
Make it no speed limit?
Close the freeway completely when construction workers are there?
Do you just not believe the study?
Whats the deal?
 
OP
Cryozombie

Cryozombie

Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Feb 11, 2003
Messages
9,998
Reaction score
206
Maybe they should lower the speed limit to 35 and give you a 10 mph leeway.. Would that make you feel better?

Yes. My issue is not with the speed per se. Its with the Draconian enforcement measures. Id be ok if they lowered it to 35 and put in a 5mph leeway... which would give us a 40mph speed.

Id feel better if they pulled every camera out and put 2 cops at every zone and let them write appropriate tickets.

As far as Fatalites go... the Current methods put in place have reduced fatalities of workers in construction zones by more than Half...

As a result, the number of state work zone fatalities has dipped from 44 in 2003 to 21 in 2007.
(from the Springfield, Illinois Herald)

being this Draconian about it may or may not reduce that further, but tell me something and be honest:

How many workers lives do you propose will be saved by these methods on Sundays and Holidays and after Midnight when no workers are present? I predict: "0". That's way I also propose if it wasn't being done as a revenue source we can change this policy to somthing more like the one Indiana has I mentioned in my previous post.
 

LuckyKBoxer

Master Black Belt
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Messages
1,390
Reaction score
39
being this Draconian about it may or may not reduce that further, but tell me something and be honest:

How many workers lives do you propose will be saved by these methods on Sundays and Holidays and after Midnight when no workers are present? I predict: "0". That's way I also propose if it wasn't being done as a revenue source we can change this policy to somthing more like the one Indiana has I mentioned in my previous post.

Ya well in California they are doing construction on the highways and its a 7 day a week 24 hour a day operation here.

There might be times when there are no workers, but I have personally been on the road at damn near every hour in the AM and seen workers out there, including weekends.

IF you just have it say when workers are present, there is going to be alot of people saying....i did not see anyone... not to mention the legions of people who should not be driving anyways and actually wont see someone.

No I have to say I believe these things should be enforced 24 hours a day 7 days a week, at least given the fact that where I am it is indeed happening over a long period of time at all hours..
 
OP
Cryozombie

Cryozombie

Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Feb 11, 2003
Messages
9,998
Reaction score
206
No I have to say I believe these things should be enforced 24 hours a day 7 days a week, at least given the fact that where I am it is indeed happening over a long period of time at all hours..

Thats great for you. We arent talking a law in California. We are talking enforcement in Illinois & Its not happening 24/7.
 

Latest Discussions

Top