Would you recommend Budo Taijutsu?

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by Hudson69, May 3, 2011.

  1. Hudson69

    Hudson69 Brown Belt

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    Based off of the premise that the instructor is competent (seems like it anyway) and the student, my friend, will be a good one would you recommend someone, him, to study Budo Taijutsu?

    This is given that the student in question only has about six months before he deploys to a hot spot and fully expects to have to use hand to hand techniques when he gets there: detainment facility, no armor, potentially multiple opponents and limited to a baton/night stick of some sort. The student is already qual'd in Army Combatives as well and the instructor is unwilling to modify the curriculum to deal with the expected occurrences (he has no prior MA experience outside of "Army" training).

    This is a real situation coming up.
     
  2. yorkshirelad

    yorkshirelad Master Black Belt

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    No!
     
  3. Bruno@MT

    Bruno@MT Senior Master

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    No. Not at all. Waste of time.
    If someone has 6 months to learn something and is expecting actual hand to hand combat, ninpo or budo taijutsu is really not a good choice.

    Depending on what level of violence he is allowed or expected to use, I'd tell him to take up boxing and / or BJJ(or something very like it), and train several times per week. Your friend does not have the luxury of learning things slowly and spending a lot of time working on basics, rolling and breakfalls. He'll need something he can use ASAP.
     
  4. pgsmith

    pgsmith Master of Arts

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    I agree. I would recommend Krav Maga if he can find it.
     
  5. Dean Whittle

    Dean Whittle Yellow Belt

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    If he's working in a detainment facility (ie prison) then he's probably expected to control and restrain (C&R), and have the ability to escalate his response based on circumstances, eg multiple assailants, weapons etc.

    Given those parameters I don't think BBT would be suitable, neither would boxing or BJJ, although BJJ is good in controling an opponent provided they have no friends, and there's no weapons involved and you have the time to learn it.

    I'm not aware if Krav Maga has a C&R curriculum, but it's certainly closer to the mark than any of the above.

    My recommendation would be ISR Matrix (www.isrmatrix.org), it fits the bill perfectly for what your friend is looking for, not only in terms of content (C&R in a prison etc) but also in it's deliverly method of short term skill development.

    With respect
     
  6. Stealthy

    Stealthy Blue Belt

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    My thoughts exactly.

    If feeling generous an instructor may do up a home training program for your friend. To be effective over such a short time and with the threat of weapons I assume it should be confined to the most practical close quarters weapon and be very limited in content.

    Assuming some form of Batton it should cover basic attacks, stances, flanking, weight distribution relative to stance and flanks but little else.

    With a few months training two hours a day with one good weapon on the basics while drilling strikes onto a target(ie: a car tyre for the batton) perhaps even getting in a little light sparring with head gear and safety weapons, survival chance should increase dramatically.
     
  7. Carol

    Carol Crazy like a...

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    I think 6 months in the FMAs would do him a lot of good.
     
  8. tenzen

    tenzen Blue Belt

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    I would like to say that krav maga is ******** in america. Taijutsu takes way too long and if u run the risk of multiple opponents bjj can be ruled out immediately. I do have to agree with carol though. Fma would be a good route since he will be carrying a baton and the techs transfer well to empty hand. If it was me in that situation I would focus one stomping knee kicks and chopping strikes to the neck and collar bones kicks to the groin eye gouging things like that. And drill them until I hated them and then drill them some more. These are gross motor movements that can be used whether tired or injured or armored if it were the case. He will find these in the fma.
     
  9. shinbushi

    shinbushi Green Belt

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    I would also say that the Dog Brothers have a great program called die less often
     
  10. Brian R. VanCise

    Brian R. VanCise MT Moderator Staff Member

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    While I would not rule out training in Budo Taijutsu with the right instructor. (ie. some former military people that I know that would understand his needs and have trained people going into Iraq and Afghanistan in a short period) FMA's would probably be the best choice particularly Dekiti Tirsia Siradas or Pekiti Tirsia, Sayoc, etc. Not to say that Krav Maga would not work as well as many others. [​IMG]
     
  11. oaktree

    oaktree Master of Arts

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    I think something with knives like FMA is great I would think that if he was in a close encounter situation he would be using a knife or the other guy would be using a knife if neither had guns for some reason.

    I think something that is straight to point
    like Boxing and Judo and wrestling. Something along the lines of fake a punch double leg take down smash face with rock.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/24011504/PDF-Combat-Judo

    http://www.tsroadmap.com/early/tough.pdf

    http://www.resist.com/updates/2010/AUG_10/USMC-KillOrGetKilled-1.pdf

    http://judoinfo.com/pdf/Combat.pdf
     
  12. Jphaas

    Jphaas White Belt

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    Unquestionably, yes, I would recommend it. If he trains hard under a good teacher, he can learn many viable principles for tactical movement in armed/unarmed combat in a 6 month time frame. But notice I said principles, not techniques. His level of technique won't be so great after only 6 months of training, but the movement template that gets instilled in his body through correct, principle-based training will serve him very well. Not to mention, he can also continue training on his own or with likeminded people once he gets stationed to further refine what he's learned.
     
  13. pgsmith

    pgsmith Master of Arts

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    I disagree with all Krav Maga being *** in America, but I do agree that, if he is armed with a baton, FMA would be a very good choice. I was thinking empty handed rather than armed when I suggested Krav.
     
  14. Bruno@MT

    Bruno@MT Senior Master

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    Yes, but after 6 months he still would not have good practical skills that he could use in a real confrontation.
     
  15. Jphaas

    Jphaas White Belt

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    I disagree, Bruno. He already had some sort of Army combatives training, right? Plus, he will probably be getting OJT as well once he's stationed. When you add in body skills that teach tactical movement and principles of weapon use to that base, I'd say he's got a fairly good shot at being effective. But hey, that's just my opinion after training a guy who happens to be a prison guard in a military installation and listening to his feedback. :)
     
  16. tenzen

    tenzen Blue Belt

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    Ok army combatives are nothing more than modified mma and are made to instill confidence not fighting ability. This is done because most of these newbees have never even been hit in the face. So you can rule that out. Also in the environment he will be in you don't want to go to the ground. In regards to krav maga here in the states it is mostly taught at tkd schools by guys who really can't fight, and have never had to use it. Most of it. There are rare instances when you get a good instructor from israel or one from anywhere that has had to use it. But its rare. The level of instruction here and the instructors themselves are not quality. The system itsself is great especially for the situation but I would be willing to bet he's not around a decent krav instructor. The fma are proven and much easier to find quality instruction in. And probably more cost effective too. Krav can get expensive so can budo taijutsu.
     
  17. MJS

    MJS Administrator Staff Member

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    Can't disagree with you on the Krav Maga. Most of what you see at theTKD schools is the KMWW Darren Levine stuff. However, and I should consider myself lucky because within a few hours distance from me, I have the KMF led by Haim Zut and the IKMA led by Haim Gidon. NY and NJ aren't that far from me, so if I wanted legit KM, thats where I'd go. Sadly, there is alot of subpar stuff out there, so if you want the real stuff, you may have to travel.

    The FMAs....yup, been training in them for many years now. Certainly some effective stuff. :)
     
  18. Hudson69

    Hudson69 Brown Belt

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    Right now he is working on PPCT with me; without the handcuffing and searching and a strong emphasis on the striking/blocking/movement/falls and time with the baton. We are also sparring and I have a few friends helping out so that he gets to know what it is like to fight different people and more than one person.

    He says he found a Krav school in town (Colorado Springs) with LEO Krav instructors and they will let him take lessons. He couldn't find an FMA school here, in the Pikes Peak region.

    Thanks for the input guys and gals.
     
  19. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

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    If they're able to teach the LE curriculum of Krav Maga, it could be good. I've been impressed by KMWW's defensive tactics program.

    As taught in most dojo I've heard of -- I wouldn't say ANY real martial art is a good choice. The reality is he needs to simply grind in a handful of adaptable principles, ideally that transfer smoothly from empty hand to stick, and practice them in a variety of scenarios. And there just aren't that many schools that will do that...
     
  20. Carol

    Carol Crazy like a...

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    If he is interested, there is a good FMA instructor right in Colorado Springs

    Mr. Jay Haynes:
    http://www.familykaratecenter.com/arnis.htm
     

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