It says you're a troll. It just took me longer than usual to come to that conclusion. Later.
Winning - Important or Irrelevant?
- Thread starter Champ-Pain
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It says you're a troll. It just took me longer than usual to come to that conclusion. Later.
OP
Champ-Pain
Blue Belt
- Thread Starter
- #42
Why? My opinion may not be agreed with, by many - but my arguement does have some real merit and valid points. Although not many members of MT agree with my point of view, I assure you, there are many others who do.
BTW: Nothing I've posted is false or made up - and none of it has been shown to be incorrect...
I complimented you on being a Marine and a Champion husband - I commended you on serving your country, I thanked you, in what I thought, you would have taken as a good gesture. I've never disrespected you, or anyone else on MT - and your conclusion is that I'm a troll? OK, Later.
What are you even arguing?
This is a slightly confusing Conversation.
Firstly, I Refuse to State My Opinion on any of these Topics.
In regards to the Previous Statement on Page 2;
This can be True, but it can also be a Result of how many Competitors there are. And someone not Winning doesnt make them Bad at what they do. And so and so forth.
In regards to this Page;
Complimenting someone may be a Good Gesture, but it doesnt give you some kind of Immunity.
Overall; Not being Shown to be Incorrect is a Poor Defense. Since that would mean, that if I said that Martial Talk has less Users than Sherdog, that MT is an Inferior Website; You couldnt Disprove that, due to a lack of any viable way to do so. Short of just slandering one of the two, and looking like a moron.
However, your Reply to Sukerkin is slightly Narrow, as it Excludes an Entire Archetype of Competition.
In regards to the UFC, they do want to Win Monotopically, albeit for Money. Not for "Drive".
In regards to Champions; The Current Oceanic/World (I think hes still World?) Champion for the ITF travels around the World on Flights that are Paid for by the Organisation, to Compete, and make Money if he Wins. Hes a Heavyweight, and spends more time at Home than he does doing anything else. But, he doesnt Brag about it at all. Barely anyone even knows who he is. It tends to be other People who Discuss him.
The other Factor, is that a Beginner wont be put up with a Champion in the first place; Even if the Beginner is Better, the Beginner still needs to Navigate their way up. And even then, just having Skill aint enough to get you into World Tournaments.
Some People do Enjoy Losing, largely due to the Competition itself, Learning from their Mistakes, and aiming to Improve.
Competition is the Truest way of Testing your Skill against an Opponent who wants to do the same.
Bottom Line:
Your Views could be a bit more Restrospectively Inclusive, but whether or not theyre Deliberately Inflammatory is Debatable.
In Inclined to think theyre Not, but I can see how Others might perhaps think so if Read under that Light.
I do not, however, see any Disrespect. On the other hand, Disrespect is Irrelevant to the Discussion.
--This is mostly for the Benefit of anyone else Reading this, so they can Exploit my Overview of whats been said so far, and come to their own Conclusions. So they dont have to Re-Read the Entire Thread to do so.
Firstly, I Refuse to State My Opinion on any of these Topics.
In regards to the Previous Statement on Page 2;
This can be True, but it can also be a Result of how many Competitors there are. And someone not Winning doesnt make them Bad at what they do. And so and so forth.
In regards to this Page;
Complimenting someone may be a Good Gesture, but it doesnt give you some kind of Immunity.
Overall; Not being Shown to be Incorrect is a Poor Defense. Since that would mean, that if I said that Martial Talk has less Users than Sherdog, that MT is an Inferior Website; You couldnt Disprove that, due to a lack of any viable way to do so. Short of just slandering one of the two, and looking like a moron.
However, your Reply to Sukerkin is slightly Narrow, as it Excludes an Entire Archetype of Competition.
In regards to the UFC, they do want to Win Monotopically, albeit for Money. Not for "Drive".
In regards to Champions; The Current Oceanic/World (I think hes still World?) Champion for the ITF travels around the World on Flights that are Paid for by the Organisation, to Compete, and make Money if he Wins. Hes a Heavyweight, and spends more time at Home than he does doing anything else. But, he doesnt Brag about it at all. Barely anyone even knows who he is. It tends to be other People who Discuss him.
The other Factor, is that a Beginner wont be put up with a Champion in the first place; Even if the Beginner is Better, the Beginner still needs to Navigate their way up. And even then, just having Skill aint enough to get you into World Tournaments.
Some People do Enjoy Losing, largely due to the Competition itself, Learning from their Mistakes, and aiming to Improve.
Competition is the Truest way of Testing your Skill against an Opponent who wants to do the same.
Bottom Line:
Your Views could be a bit more Restrospectively Inclusive, but whether or not theyre Deliberately Inflammatory is Debatable.
In Inclined to think theyre Not, but I can see how Others might perhaps think so if Read under that Light.
I do not, however, see any Disrespect. On the other hand, Disrespect is Irrelevant to the Discussion.
--This is mostly for the Benefit of anyone else Reading this, so they can Exploit my Overview of whats been said so far, and come to their own Conclusions. So they dont have to Re-Read the Entire Thread to do so.
OP
Champ-Pain
Blue Belt
- Thread Starter
- #45
That winning in sports is important and has many benefits... that's all.
OP
Champ-Pain
Blue Belt
- Thread Starter
- #46
I don't disagree with your well written and useful comments - except for that part which I've highlighted in red... it may be true, but I've certainly never known anyone who enjoys losing - at least nobody that will admit to it, but it's possible, I guess.
I competed in various arts from 1973 to 2000. Trained with a lot of folks who compete and had long talks with more than I can remember. For what it's worth, the only thing we all agreed on was you learn a hell of a lot more from a loss than you do from a win.
I don't think its really the right frame to say that someone enjoys losing, I think its more that the person realizes a benefit in the experience regardless of outcome. Winning and learning do not always follow the same path.
Personally I'm not the athletic sort so athletic wins aren't important to me....but professional wins, now that's another story. I have dug in to challenges at work in scenarios that seem impossible. There have been occasions where I have done the impossible and solved problems everyone around me couldn't solve. THAT was awesome...a stunning victory, if you will! Quite the adrenaline rush too....and yup, that's what gets ya hooked.
But I have also dug in to challenges that seem impossible and not succeed, yet they still seemed like a moral victory in their own right. Perhaps I learned something that I used to solve another problem. Perhaps I that I couldn't solve the problem but I could present a workaround to the problem that was better than no solution at all.
To me a loss would be mismanaging a scenario. Boss wants me to work with Customer A on their issue. I don't work with Customer A, I work on the Impossible Challenge instead. Boss gets madand takes action against me for not focusing on the primary task at hand. That's a loss. I miss my friend's birthday party because I decide to stay late at work and dig at the Impossible Challenge, my friends are disappointed in me for not being there. That's a loss.
OP
Champ-Pain
Blue Belt
- Thread Starter
- #50
Personally, I can appreciate a good loss - if it comes with effort, especially - if I can turn it into a learning experience. Now I agree with your entire post.
OP
Champ-Pain
Blue Belt
- Thread Starter
- #51
I don't disagree with that - but seriously, who would rather lose, than win? Winning just makes us feel a whole lot better, in most cases - I suppose that there are always exceptions.
I attended a High School Wrestling event today - I just got back, in fact. Every single teen I saw after a victory was happy, proud of himself, and talking about their wins with team-mates, family and friends, and showed lots of confidense. Those I saw after a loss were hunched over, heads down, seemingly sad and insecure. Anybody could tell who won or lost the match - without having watched it - just by looking at the competitors on the way off the mat. Just an observation - not certain what it means.
OP
Champ-Pain
Blue Belt
- Thread Starter
- #52
I appreciate your post - but once again, I'll repeat that I'm only talking about "SPORTS" winning. I totally understand that there are other forms/ways of "winning" - However, this thread is not about them.I don't think its really the right frame to say that someone enjoys losing, I think its more that the person realizes a benefit in the experience regardless of outcome. Winning and learning do not always follow the same path.
Personally I'm not the athletic sort so athletic wins aren't important to me....but professional wins, now that's another story. I have dug in to challenges at work in scenarios that seem impossible. There have been occasions where I have done the impossible and solved problems everyone around me couldn't solve. THAT was awesome...a stunning victory, if you will! Quite the adrenaline rush too....and yup, that's what gets ya hooked.
But I have also dug in to challenges that seem impossible and not succeed, yet they still seemed like a moral victory in their own right. Perhaps I learned something that I used to solve another problem. Perhaps I that I couldn't solve the problem but I could present a workaround to the problem that was better than no solution at all.
To me a loss would be mismanaging a scenario. Boss wants me to work with Customer A on their issue. I don't work with Customer A, I work on the Impossible Challenge instead. Boss gets madand takes action against me for not focusing on the primary task at hand. That's a loss. I miss my friend's birthday party because I decide to stay late at work and dig at the Impossible Challenge, my friends are disappointed in me for not being there. That's a loss.
Then no, sports winning - to me - doesn't matter much. Eh....so I join Nastar this year and I win 10 out of 10 races. Or I win 0 out of 10. Wouldn't change my life much either way. I wouldn't do it just for the chance at medaling. I woudn't quit it just because I didn't medal all season.
Getting out there, trying something new, having fun, watching yourself improve, that's what motivates me.
Getting out there, trying something new, having fun, watching yourself improve, that's what motivates me.
The thing is, winning in sports isn't going to have an impact on my life. It doesn't change our income, it doesn't change the oil in my car, it doesn't really do anything. I feel good for an evening and what do I care the next day? I don't. The pay off just isn't there for me.
Professional Sports Pay You If You Win.
Langenschwert
Master Black Belt
I like winning. But I enjoy the training even more.
One thing I've noticed is that the next best thing after pulling off a technique perfectly and whacking your opponent with it, is being on the receiving end of such a technique. It's a great learning experience. It's most satisfying when one of my students makes it work on me... it tells me I'm doing my job. Or that I suck worse every day. Hopefully it's the former and not the latter.
Best regards,
-Mark
One thing I've noticed is that the next best thing after pulling off a technique perfectly and whacking your opponent with it, is being on the receiving end of such a technique. It's a great learning experience. It's most satisfying when one of my students makes it work on me... it tells me I'm doing my job. Or that I suck worse every day. Hopefully it's the former and not the latter.
Best regards,
-Mark
Did he say professional? I didn't see that.
He Didnt Specify, Either.
Therefore, Sport is a Contextually General Term.
I'm used to seeing women's sports that generally haven't been a place to make money.
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