Winning - Important or Irrelevant?

[Nomad]

They put a lot of sacrifice into their training, by putting aside their family and anything else that may distract it. They constantly diet and lose weight before fights/competition. They often lose out on family time and social events. Why? Because to them - there is nothing as important as winning.

To me, this is the key sentence in this argument. In order to be "the best" (if that's possible, since genetics undoubtedly plays a role (e.g. Michael Phelps - size 14 feet and double-jointed ankles!)), you have to make a choice to effectively eschew many other aspects of what I'd consider a balanced life. This includes personal and familial relationships, work (until you're good enough to make your competitive sport your job at least), and social activities.

Now, I'm thinking. Are those who say it is not important, doing so because they've never been good at competition? - Perhaps it's the, how can something I'm not very good at be important to me, mentality? Maybe fear of the unknown and/or failure, so I won't even compete, to keep myself from failing? I don't know, but sometimes it seems as though, the folks saying that "winning is unimportant" - probably didn't win very often, some may have never won at all.

When I started martial arts, I was much more competitive than I am now, and I was pretty good at it and have a few boxes of trophies to show for it.

The change away from competition came from a few things. One was tearing my ACL and having to undergo the long road to recovery following that. Another was the accompanying realization that while the 20 year olds were somehow staying 20 (or being replaced by new 20 year olds), I wasn't anymore, and had definitely passed my prime. A third was looking at the lack of attention that other things, like my family and my work, were getting while I was in this uber-competitive mode. The focus of my interest in martial arts started to shift away from competition towards more self-defense applications. Altogether, the plastic trophies weren't worth the cost (in terms of health, money, lost time with family & friends, etc) to me.

 

[Blindside]

I will give all respect to those who push the limits of the art and themselves and test it again and again against others. Personally I am not a particularly competitive person, I enjoy competition but I am not willing to put in the time to become an elite competitor (assuming the natural talent was there to begin with.) I will study with those champions and hope to get whatever insights they have developed from their experiences and thank them for providing them to me. Even though I don't have much interest in competing regularly these days I still draw lessons from when I did, and I do use competition as a training tool to motivate me to work harder.

 

[Champ-Pain]

Better is relative. I'm a champion husband and family man. That's my 'better'. I'm physically past my prime and not interested in competing for the sake of becoming a champion, and certainly not willing to sacrifice my family (per your statement) to do so. I like to compete; and I like to do well; and I would like very much to win at some point. But not at the cost of my family. That's not 'better' to me.



And here's MY opinion. I'm a US Marine. I don't have to prove I can be a champion to anyone, ever. I did all my proving, and my trophy says "Honorable Discharge" on it. Paid in full.

You are obviously a man of principle, no doubt. Keep in mind, I'm only talking about sports winning - nothing else.

I thank and commend you for your service to this great country we live in. It's folks like yourself that make it so great to begin with.

 

[robb805]

If I become stronger, more physically fit, and have more mental clarity and focus, I'd consider that a win.

I've got nothing but respect for those who compete at the highest levels (and the lower levels) of martial arts, competition just isn't my thing.

 

[Champ-Pain]

I'm just saying that those who are on top of whatever world they sit on - will almost always be competitive, proud and often times loud - with few exceptions... and will do whatever possible to win. On the other hand, those who are not very good at sports, whatever sport it may be they participate in, and rarely, if ever, find themselves on a podium receiving an award - will almost always deny the importance of winning (in sport) - with very few exceptions... and in fact, will often avoid competition altogether.

What does that say to you?

 

[Twin Fist]

winning is nice, but it isnt the point, IMO

 

[Champ-Pain]

winning is nice, but it isnt the point, IMO

Why else would you compete, then? For fun? It's much more fun when you win, IMHO... losing sux! What is "the point"?

 

[Champ-Pain]

My list of reasons on why I say that "Winning is IMPORTANT":

I gain -

1) Confidense

2) Esteem


3) It feeds my ego

4) It gives me something to brag about

Winning a Championship, Title, Cup - can and has lit up, woken up and brought together - a city, state, country and on occation - a whole region - and forged a unity that was not there, pryor to the Victory - due to pride and joy - that only Victory could have ever accomplished. People often forget wars, death, hardship, sickness, hunger, etc. - when their national team wins - even if only for a short while. So, is it important? I say - Hell Yes!

 

[Monroe]

I'm just saying that those who are on top of whatever world they sit on - will almost always be competitive, proud and often times loud - with few exceptions... and will do whatever possible to win. On the other hand, those who are not very good at sports, whatever sport it may be they participate in, and rarely, if ever, find themselves on a podium receiving an award - will almost always deny the importance of winning (in sport) - with very few exceptions... and in fact, will often avoid competition altogether.

What does that say to you?

I think you're looking to stroke your own ego. I don't know if I have any talent in MA. It's been less than 2 weeks since I started checking out schools. I do know that I'm not looking to get competitive. I have a husband, kids, work and a life more important than competition. But who can argue with you by your logic? Regardless of what anyone says, you've decided that anyone that doesn't want to compete is talentless and would never win even if they tried. It's like arguing with Christians, because everyone who doesn't believe is a lost soul that needs to be prayed for.

I don't think all Shaolin Monks compete for medals. Are those who don't compete sore losers?

 

[Monroe]

My list of reasons on why I say that "Winning is IMPORTANT":

I gain -

1) Confidense

2) Esteem


3) It feeds my ego

4) It gives me something to brag about

Winning a Championship, Title, Cup - can and has lit up, woken up and brought together - a city, state, country and on occation - a whole region - and forged a unity that was not there, pryor to the Victory - due to pride and joy - that only Victory could have ever accomplished. People often forget wars, death, hardship, sickness, hunger, etc. - when their national team wins - even if only for a short while. So, is it important? I say - Hell Yes!

For you. I've seen a person come in first and say years later that they should have spent that time with their family.

 

[Champ-Pain]

Monroe - In no way am I trying to stroke my own ego, nor is this an attack on your views or opinions. I say "it is important" - and I gave some resons why I believe it, to be so. I'm not trying to change your mind, or anyone elses. I have my opinions - you have yours - no hard feelings. I've never said anybody is a sore loser - certainly, not about those who don't compete. Please, don't misrepresent my words, quotes, or meanings. Thanks

Your point about Christians - pretty much goes for all religions.

 

[Sukerkin]

From the standpoint of Japanese arts, particularly armed ones, winning or losing truly are irrelevant. To consider either of them is to lose mushin.

 

[Champ-Pain]

From the standpoint of Japanese arts, particularly armed ones, winning or losing truly are irrelevant. To consider either of them is to lose mushin.

OK - I understand. Maybe you don't, so I'll say it again.

I'm talking about "SPORTS" winning - none of which is intended to be played / fought to the death.

I gave what I thought to be a great and valid point on winning, bringing a region together (blah-blah-blah), when all else has failed. I guess you don't believe that's ever happened before - I'm making it up?

 

[Sukerkin]

I realise that, good sir. What I was attempting to get across was the alternative concept that within martial arts it really is not the way to think in terms of victory or loss. It's fine for actual sports from boxing to darts, it just has no place in martial arts ... or tennis :lol: :

 

[Monroe]

OK - I understand. Maybe you don't, so I'll say it again.

I'm talking about "SPORTS" winning - none of which is intended to be played / fought to the death.

I gave what I thought to be a great and valid point on winning, bringing a region together (blah-blah-blah), when all else has failed. I guess you don't believe that's ever happened before - I'm making it up?

Then I guess I don't understand what you're still driving at then. Winning is important to some and not important to others.

 

[mook jong man]

 

[Cyriacus]

*Shamelessly Adds this to his Future Wallpaper*

 

[Champ-Pain]

Then I guess I don't understand what you're still driving at then. Winning is important to some and not important to others.

Yes! - Exactly!!! Winning is it important to some and not to others. The question is ... WHY? and WHY the huge spread between the outstanding athletes, who believe it is, and the average ones, who believe it's not? Although, I've known some very average folks - with lots of intensity and competitiveness - and a love for winning.

 

[Monroe]

Yes! - Exactly!!! Winning is it important to some and not to others. The question is ... WHY? and WHY the huge spread between the outstanding athletes, who believe it is, and the average ones, who believe it's not? Although, I've known some very average folks - with lots of intensity and competitiveness - and a love for winning.

I'm guessing for the same reason a large portion of the population don't participate in ANY sports. Because not everyone shares the same interests or the same drive.

 

[Nomad]

Yes! - Exactly!!! Winning is it important to some and not to others. The question is ... WHY? and WHY the huge spread between the outstanding athletes, who believe it is, and the average ones, who believe it's not? Although, I've known some very average folks - with lots of intensity and competitiveness - and a love for winning.

I think it may be safe to say that to be a champion, you have to have that drive to win that eclipses all else. Otherwise you're just talented. Unfortunately (in my opinion), this drive is often accompanied by extreme arrogance and the need to put others down to make sure your place is secure.

Just having the drive alone won't generally get you there though; you also need to have great trainers, good genetics to be well-suited to your sport, a load of individual talent, and a fair bit of luck along the way.

For those of us who don't eat, sleep and breathe towards the goal of becoming a champion in a specific sport, the wins or losses along the way to greater understanding are much less important. Indeed, as I said before, I think it can be far more beneficial for any competitor to learn how to lose graciously (at least occasionally!) than to win.