Winning - Important or Irrelevant?

[Champ-Pain]

I'm always accussed of being over-competitive. I may very well be - I love nothing more than to win, at anything and everything I do. For me, there is no greater feeling in the world than winning, being best, victorious, champion.

Do you believe that winning is important or irrelevant? - Please explain your position. Thanks in advance

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Winning is fun. To me, more important than winning is improving. I learn something every time I lose, and winning is a goal. But if I never win, at least I kept trying and kept learning. I understand the ultra-competitive thing, but it's just not part of my life. No disrespect intended, I think it's great to be competitive.

 

[oaktree]

I'm always accussed of being over-competitive. I may very well be - I love nothing more than to win, at anything and everything I do. For me, there is no greater feeling in the world than winning, being best, victorious, champion.

Do you believe that winning is important or irrelevant? - Please explain your position. Thanks in advance

I do not compete I rather let other's win I find more satisfication that way. If I win at something I share my win with the one who did not so both of us are winners. To me the greatest feeling in the world is knowing I helped someone. Do I believe winning is important? There is no win or loose there is simply IS and in my thought of mind we are all winners.

 

[Monroe]

Winning feels pretty good, but the reward is rarely worth the effort to me.

 

[MJS]

Bill pretty much echoed my thoughts. Sure, you do get a good feeling when you win, but, what mattered most to me, when I'd compete, would be what I'd gain out of the whole event. Obviously if I win, I did something right, but if I lose...well, what did I do wrong, and what can I do to fix those mistakes?

 

[Buka]

An old baseball quote comes to mind - "Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose and sometimes you get rained out, but you gotta suit up for them all."

The next best thing to playing and winning is playing and losing, it sure beats not playing.

 

[seasoned]

Re: Winning - Important or Irrelevant?

Self defense imperative. All else is training and learning.

 

[Cyriacus]

If you Set Yourself Up to be Let Down, then youre just asking for Bitterness.

If you Win, so be it. Enjoy it.
If you Dont, then Hopefully you didnt get your Expectations up.

Albeit, it oughtnt be the *Focus*.

 

[oftheherd1]

Winning is fun. To me, more important than winning is improving. I learn something every time I lose, and winning is a goal. But if I never win, at least I kept trying and kept learning. I understand the ultra-competitive thing, but it's just not part of my life. No disrespect intended, I think it's great to be competitive.

I think we all have a desire to win at things we do. Nothing wrong with that unless it consumes us, or we can't appropriately deal with not winning. Probably because as Bill says, we let winning attack us instead of using it to improve. In that case, we probably haven't properly defined winning.

 

[Nomad]

Winning is great. Learning to lose with dignity and composure, and then using a loss to motivate yourself to train harder and improve can be much more valuable in the long term.

 

[KempoGuy06]

Depends on what you define as winning.

Coming in 1st place in a tournament or race? Sure who doesnt like that? Being #1 is the best and you are acknowledged for it.

What about passing a test? That is winning to me. Especially when you study for it day and night. Working on for hours at a time.

Personally for me it is teaching. I love to see the look on peoples face when I have helped them jump that hurdle in their training. Seeing them walk away with a new swagger they lacked previously.

So in answer to your question, yes winning is important it just depends on how you define it.

B

 

[Champ-Pain]

I agree. Winning is passing a test, getting married to the love of your life - til death, buying your dream home, running a successful business, having a wonderful, loving family, etc. - but - I'm specifically talking about sports winning. Taking home the GOLD at a tournament and/or being part of a championship team in sports... however, more so in individual sports, rather than team sports - because although you get all the credit when you win - you can't blame anybody else when you don't.

I just want to make an observation - Some of the BEST / GREATEST athletes in their individual sport - were all very competitive, very confident, and in many cases, they bragged... Muhamad Ali, Mike Tyson, $Money$ Maywheather, Roberto Duran, Brock Lesner, John Mcenroe, BJ Penn - Hell - most UFC fighters do it, even the not so good ones and many, many others. None of them ever said that "winning is not important" or "irrelevant". On the contrary, to most of them, it was the only thing.

 

[seasoned]

Re: Winning - Important or Irrelevant?

Self defense imperative. All else is training and learning.

Back stepping on this one a bit. I feel it is age and training related.

I agree. Winning is passing a test, getting married to the love of your life - til death, buying your dream home, running a successful business, having a wonderful, loving family, etc. - but - I'm specifically talking about sports winning. Taking home the GOLD at a tournament and/or being part of a championship team in sports... however, more so in individual sports, rather than team sports - because although you get all the credit when you win - you can't blame anybody else when you don't.

I just want to make an observation - Some of the BEST / GREATEST athletes in their individual sport - were all very competitive, very confident, and in many cases, they bragged... Muhamad Ali, Mike Tyson, $Money$ Maywheather, Roberto Duran, Brock Lesner, John Mcenroe, BJ Penn - Hell - most UFC fighters do it, even the not so good ones and many, many others. None of them ever said that "winning is not important" or "irrelevant". On the contrary, to most of them, it was the only thing.

When I was a young black belt it felt darn good to win. Not that my Sensei pushed it or made a big deal out of it, but to the contrary, he taught, to do your best and live with the outcome. Needless to say, deep down I loved the win, and the trophy was awesome. But, as I said in the above comment, it is age and training related. When I stated Martial Arts it was self defense centered, so consequently everything I did, whether training or competing, it was about the survival aspect and not the sport outcome. At my age now my mind is geared toward a different type of thinking, but hopefully my input is still pertinent. I do feel thought, that a sensei needs to allow his students to experience all aspects of the arts and evolve where it takes them..

 

[Sukerkin]

Some very good and insightful points made in the posts above. All I can add to the mix is somewhat short and pithy - don't get 'sport' confused with 'fighting'.

When it comes to sparring or competition, I really couldn't care less whether I win or lose, just as long, as has been said earlier, that I learn something from either outcome.

The one time I had to put what I knew into practise for 'real', I 'won' in no uncertain terms ... and it still felt like one of the worst experiences of my life. That said, even tho' being the 'winner' felt like being the 'loser', it was better than the alternative (physically at least; psychologically I am not so sure given that I still feel guilty even nearly three decades on).

 

[Monroe]

I just want to make an observation - Some of the BEST / GREATEST athletes in their individual sport - were all very competitive, very confident, and in many cases, they bragged... Muhamad Ali, Mike Tyson, $Money$ Maywheather, Roberto Duran, Brock Lesner, John Mcenroe, BJ Penn - Hell - most UFC fighters do it, even the not so good ones and many, many others. None of them ever said that "winning is not important" or "irrelevant". On the contrary, to most of them, it was the only thing.

That's not something I have ever aspired to. That's not everyone's cup of tea.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I just want to make an observation - Some of the BEST / GREATEST athletes in their individual sport - were all very competitive, very confident, and in many cases, they bragged... Muhamad Ali, Mike Tyson, $Money$ Maywheather, Roberto Duran, Brock Lesner, John Mcenroe, BJ Penn - Hell - most UFC fighters do it, even the not so good ones and many, many others. None of them ever said that "winning is not important" or "irrelevant". On the contrary, to most of them, it was the only thing.

If there is only one heavyweight champion in the world at (for example boxing), then everyone else is a loser. Not everyone can be the champion. Not everyone wants to be the champion. And there is nothing wrong with either wanting to win or not being particularly interested in winning. All winning is both temporary and illusory, as it all losing. In the end, the grave yawns wide for winners and losers alike. If winning is a goal, then by all means strive to do that. But if you are not the 'champion' and you spend your life in bitter frustration striving for something you'll never have, in my opinion, that's a sad and wasted life.

 

[Champ-Pain]

If there is only one heavyweight champion in the world at (for example boxing), then everyone else is a loser. Not everyone can be the champion. Not everyone wants to be the champion. And there is nothing wrong with either wanting to win or not being particularly interested in winning. All winning is both temporary and illusory, as it all losing. In the end, the grave yawns wide for winners and losers alike. If winning is a goal, then by all means strive to do that. But if you are not the 'champion' and you spend your life in bitter frustration striving for something you'll never have, in my opinion, that's a sad and wasted life.

I don't want you, or anyone else to take this the wrong way - I'm just showing the other side of the coin, here. I agree on your points, but - Isn't trying and failing, better than not having tried at all? If most/all great champions - and contenders, alike - strive to be the best at what they do - are often super competitive, over-confident, brash and braggy - are they all wrong in doing so? I've never heard a champion or contender say winning is not important in competition. They put a lot of sacrifice into their training, by putting aside their family and anything else that may distract it. They constantly diet and lose weight before fights/competition. They often lose out on family time and social events. Why? Because to them - there is nothing as important as winning.

Now, I'm thinking. Are those who say it is not important, doing so because they've never been good at competition? - Perhaps it's the, how can something I'm not very good at be important to me, mentality? Maybe fear of the unknown and/or failure, so I won't even compete, to keep myself from failing? I don't know, but sometimes it seems as though, the folks saying that "winning is unimportant" - probably didn't win very often, some may have never won at all.

I'm NOT referring to any member with any of my above observartions. Just making a point / opinion.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I don't want you, or anyone else to take this the wrong way - I'm just showing the other side of the coin, here. I agree on your points, but - Isn't trying and failing, better than not having tried at all?

Better is relative. I'm a champion husband and family man. That's my 'better'. I'm physically past my prime and not interested in competing for the sake of becoming a champion, and certainly not willing to sacrifice my family (per your statement) to do so. I like to compete; and I like to do well; and I would like very much to win at some point. But not at the cost of my family. That's not 'better' to me.

Now, I'm thinking. Are those who say it is not important, doing so because they've never been good at competition? - Perhaps it's the, how can something I'm not very good at be important to me, mentality? Maybe fear of the unknown and/or failure, so I won't even compete, to keep myself from failing? I don't know, but sometimes it seems as though, the folks saying that "winning is unimportant" - probably didn't win very often, some may have never won at all.

I'm NOT referring to any member with any of my above observartions. Just making a point / opinion.

And here's MY opinion. I'm a US Marine. I don't have to prove I can be a champion to anyone, ever. I did all my proving, and my trophy says "Honorable Discharge" on it. Paid in full.

 

[Em MacIntosh]

My apologies if I offend anyone. It's unintentional.

I detest competition in almost all its forms (or perhaps all of them). I can't shake the feeling that the participants are just on the quest to be the alpha male, whatever other reasons they espouse. I hate the alpha male concept. The participants are voluntary stepping stones but stepping stones nonetheless.

I'd rather they were competing in a tourney as opposed to pushing an old lady out of the way on the bus for a seat though.

As far as arrogant champions, nothing about arrogance makes you less of a fighter, just less of a person (or more of a person based on what society values).

Not that I'm bitter about losing either, I've done alright in the tourneys I've participated in but I can't stand the pervasive arrogance, the advertisement of testosterone or the macho attitudes that so many forget to leave at the door. I've found that sort of thing is actually welcomed and encouraged. Perhaps not to the extent of taunts and derogatory remarks but the subtle signs of disrespect for rival schools, instructors and fellow students are so common.

When I won I felt like I'd taken some happiness from another to feed my own. I felt miserable about it and stopped participating in tourneys.

I would love it if someone could convince me of the positive aspects of competition because I don't feel or see them. It's something to strive for but the strife is what counts, not the competition.

Again, my apologies if I'm being offensive.

 

[Monroe]

Now, I'm thinking. Are those who say it is not important, doing so because they've never been good at competition? - Perhaps it's the, how can something I'm not very good at be important to me, mentality? Maybe fear of the unknown and/or failure, so I won't even compete, to keep myself from failing? I don't know, but sometimes it seems as though, the folks saying that "winning is unimportant" - probably didn't win very often, some may have never won at all.

I'm good at a few things and won some things. A little competition is healthy. but I'm not going to make sacrifices for it. I have a life outside of sports and I don't want to make sacrifices to it for sports. Winning requires sacrifing time and effort, with no guarantees. When I work for something, I expect that outside of some unusual event, I want a reward that matches the effort I put into it. A medal that lasts until the competition doesn't cut it for me. 3-5 hours per week cardio/exercise is the minimum to lead a health lifestyle. I want to enjoy myself, maintain my health, learn something new and a little adrenalin.

I've set goals that I wanted to accomplish and for the most part reached them.

I'm not afraid to fail. I fail at stuff all the time and I have the witnesses to prove it. Like my attempt at paintball shooting. After screaming like a girl when I got hit, I realized my throat was going to be sore by the end of the day. I would have appreciated it if just one of the guys would have screamed.

Training to compete seems like a lot of effort for not a lot of reward. It's not impossible that I could win if I worked for it, but I don't think it's worth the effort.