SKK Half Moon.......why?

Discussion in 'Kenpo / Kempo - General' started by Hand Sword, Apr 22, 2008.

  1. Hand Sword

    Hand Sword Grandmaster

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    The same precision could be, is and WAS attained BEFORE half mooning came in. The real attacks could be slowed down to make it easier for a new student to get it. Then the wiring in the brain will be used to a more realistic stimuli. In the end the same results were there: safety, coordination (properly for the real stuff), and technique.
     
  2. punisher73

    punisher73 Senior Master

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    Back to half-mooning, I just recently watched a video by Morio Higoanna. He is one of the highest ranking Goju-ryu masters and has always tried to go back to the original chinese sources and focused on reality for his kata applications.

    When he talked about the c-step he said it was for practice only and in real application you just move the foot straight ahead when you are trying to move quickly.
     
  3. DavidCC

    DavidCC Master of Arts

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    I don't know what's in the air today but I feel like I have posted that same thing in like 3 different threads already today :)
     
  4. DavidCC

    DavidCC Master of Arts

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    "if you don't do what you do then what are you doing?"
     
  5. Doc

    Doc Senior Master

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    - Ed Parker Sr. :)
     
  6. IWishToLearn

    IWishToLearn 3rd Black Belt

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    No fair. You were probably there with the other dinosaurs when he first said it.
     
  7. DavidCC

    DavidCC Master of Arts

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    you didn't think I wasn't paying attention, did you?
     
  8. Doc

    Doc Senior Master

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    Wise guy! "Fix your rear foot!"
     
  9. DavidCC

    DavidCC Master of Arts

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    LOL I must be moving up in the world, this is a big improvement over fixing both feet!
     
  10. TenTigers

    TenTigers Orange Belt

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    "It is important to understand that the Chinese taught many different things for many reasons. It was the Okinawan's and Japanese that decided that every move had a physical application, and corrupted the process and misread "indexes of information" and transformed it into what they called Bunkai. Historical anecdotes suggest that the movements are derived from the clearing of the long Samurai Robes, and later "hakama of the Japanese, and is not seen or utilized in that manner in the Chinese Combat Sciences. "

    ok, before the "experts" throw the baby out with the bathwater, and "Improve" on their technique by omitting the half-moon or "c" step, let's clarify a few things;
    1-every move actually does have a practical application. You may not have been taught it, or cannot see it-yet, but why on Earth would someone add useless movements to a system of fighting designed for lifesaving self-defense?

    2- The "C" step was not used for clearing of the robes or hakama, as the feet move freely under the hakama-which HIDES the movements.
    3- They most certainly ARE used combatively in "Chinese Combat Sciences."
    The "C" step, or half-moon step is used to step to position yourself off centerline or to the blind side of your attacker, or his foot to immobilize it.
    It is also used to manuver around a sweep, or for a sweep.
    (makes you wonder what Higaonna learned as well. I know several high dan practitioners of Goju-Ryu, who also have very little understanding of their techniques-which is why when they spar, they simply kick/punch. Sad, really.)
    Now, the Half-moon STANCE, on the other hand is nonesense. The structural alignments are all disjointed and unconnected, which provides zero base for generation of power, and leaves your groin wide open.

    I remember Fred Bagley claiming it was superior, as it forms a tripod.
    Any middle school student with basic geometry knows that any two points on a plane, your feet/stance-can be bisected with a perpendicular line of force. There is no tripod-unless you happen to be very well endowed...!

    These concepts are taught to beginners in "Chinese Combat Sciences,"
    so I don't know where these Experts are getting their info from....
     
  11. Doc

    Doc Senior Master

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    Some of us "experts" who haven't been around as long as you, are just stupid. However we are speaking within the context of punching and moving forward in stance, so I stand by my assertion with the other dumb experts.
     
  12. shaolinmonkmark

    shaolinmonkmark Green Belt

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    i see and use both halfmoon/cstep, and angular footworks as well.
    My prime art is skk, and i use half moon to check and pin with knee, and take out an opponent's stance by doing this, and for sweeps.
    everyone has their only style, and thus i say again, "
    "Different strokes for different folks!"
    LOL!
     
  13. mwd0818

    mwd0818 Green Belt

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    They have their use in a very limited form. Unfortunately, it's use is so much more narrow than what most SKK practitioners would like to see.

    Getting around a leg? Sure, but why not go through it? You want to sweep it? That's fine - the Half-Mooning is correct, but in SKK it has become isolated on a plane and moves only in two dimensions. Watch judo guys, they do the C-step in 3 dimensional space, and it becomes a much tighter circle and also much more effective.
     
  14. TenTigers

    TenTigers Orange Belt

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    Nah, I certainly don't think you are stupid, and you have probably been around longer than I have. Throwing out the circling footwork has been going on for quite some time. When I studied TKD in '75, they changed their footwork-"Because you don't walk like this!"
    Stepping in to feed a strike using the half-moon step, is just reinforcing muscle memory. I also practice Southern Praying Mantis (Kwong Sai Jook Lum Ji Nam Tong Long P'ai) and when we "feed" during the two man set, the same footwork is used-although we don't use the "Half-moon stance!"
    -don't get me started...
     
  15. TenTigers

    TenTigers Orange Belt

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    because you can't always go through it. Sometimes, you want to zone to the blind side. Sometimes your opponent is bigger, or has a full head of steam on. If you limit yourself to this, then you cut down on your options. Pretty soon, you have stripped away the essentials.
     
  16. mwd0818

    mwd0818 Green Belt

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    True. There are always exceptions and differences. My comment about "getting around a leg? Sure, but why not go through it?" was designed to be a question that has two answers:

    1) Because of xxx (which you supplied an example of)
    2) Oh . . . well, maybe that is a better option.

    I've been in SKK and half-mooning for 20-something years and they do have a place, but they are over-used in the system and often done thoughtlessly. In addition, there are often better ways of moving that keep a better anatomical structure and amplify the dimensions of your techniques (providing more options). I have also been around a lot of other arts and have seen C-steps and Half-moons used quite a bit, but never so much as in Shaolin Kempo Karate.
     
  17. shaolinmonkmark

    shaolinmonkmark Green Belt

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    some kempo styles now use the "Twist Stance-Step out!"
    As well!
    LOL!!!
    (sounds like maybe another thread??? LOL)
     
  18. mwd0818

    mwd0818 Green Belt

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    Don't get me started on that one . . . :)123
     

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