simple reverse punch

Discussion in 'Tae-Kwon-Do' started by puunui, Apr 19, 2012.

  1. dancingalone

    dancingalone Grandmaster

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    :)
     
  2. puunui

    puunui Senior Master

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    I see your point, but I don't see how it relates to my original post which was in response to a post made by dancingalone. For example, I never said that the only way to train a punch is through the use of a makiwara.
     
  3. puunui

    puunui Senior Master

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    And they tend to end up with health issues later in life.
     
  4. puunui

    puunui Senior Master

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    Some old school practitioners would disagree with that. To some, without makiwara training, there is no karate.
     
  5. puunui

    puunui Senior Master

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    I think that the taekwondo footwork is, or can be, a trump card, and not only for elite level athletes. And the comparison should be elite athlete vs. elite athlete from another martial art, but rather a reasonably training taekwondo practitioner vs. the type of person most likely to assault you, if the idea is to use both the footwork and the punch in a self defense situation. having the makiwara trained punch and the taekwondo footwork will, in my opinion, greatly increase the odds in favor of the defender, especially when compared to a non trained person faced with the same situation.
     
  6. seasoned

    seasoned MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    Agreed, because there has to be a certain amount of give or else the force will transfer back to the puncher.
     
  7. Cyriacus

    Cyriacus Senior Master

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    And some "Old School" Organisations never used Makiwara throughout the course of Their Organisations existence.
    Im sure plenty of Karate Systems would hold that opinion, and possibly other Systems.
     
  8. Cyriacus

    Cyriacus Senior Master

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    Some of them are quite old, and look just fine.
    The main issue I know of, is not being able to open the hands properly.
     
  9. mastercole

    mastercole Master Black Belt

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    Which karate organizations would that be?
     
  10. Cyriacus

    Cyriacus Senior Master

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    If You constrewed what I said as saying that Karate Organisations wouldnt use Makiwara, that was not the intention, since We were discussing TKD in the TKD Forum in a Thread about TKD. I would presume.
     
  11. mastercole

    mastercole Master Black Belt

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    Here is what you wrote:

    If you are referring to Taekwondo organizations in your first sentence, which ones?

    In your second sentence, you are referring to Karate systems, hence my question. Which karate organizations would that be?
     
  12. Manny

    Manny Senior Master

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    That's what I herd.

    Manny
     
  13. Cyriacus

    Cyriacus Senior Master

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    To the first, every single one I have ever seen in My entire life. And thats quite a few.

    To the second, that was Karate Organisations holding the opinion that Makiwara are essential, which I said to agree with;

    The purpose for using two statements, is because I was unsure if Puunui was trying to use that as a reference to Karate, and not Taekwondo, or using a reference about Karate and relating it to Taekwondo, so I addressed both possibilities as best I could.

    Taking what I said, and not putting it in relation to what I was saying it to, makes it sound like I was saying that Karate Organisations surely hold the same opinion as the above. In context with who and what I was saying it to, not so much, Good Sir.
     
  14. mastercole

    mastercole Master Black Belt

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    OK, here is the original:

    [​IMG] Originally Posted by puunui [​IMG]
    Some old school practitioners would disagree with that. To some, without makiwara training, there is no karate.

    I get it, you say that plenty of Karate Systems would hold that opinion, the opinion that without makiwara training, there is not karate.

    Now my question: What (please name them) "old school" Taekwondo Organizations never used makiwara throughout the course of their organizations existence? (I assume you are referring to Taekwondo here since in your previous response you stated to me this was a Taekwondo thread, in the Taekwondo section, etc)
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2012
  15. Cyriacus

    Cyriacus Senior Master

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    Yes.
    To begin with, the one Im training in.
    Secondly, as far as Im aware from every Dojang Ive been to, the ITF. I didnt even know what a Makiwara was before joining the forum.
    For that matter, of the KKW Dojang Ive seen, I havent seen any Makiwara. That isnt to say they dont use them, that is to say, I havent seen them.

    From some time spent looking around the Internet, it seems that its mostly the Instructors who advocate Their usage, rather than the Organisations. I can find plenty of references to Organisations other than the above which do actively seem to use them.
    Listed are, Song Moo Kwan, and Joong Do Kwan. Since apparently We need to be very specific.

    Correct Me if Im wrong, but Im getting a vibe that Youre trying to create a logical collapse, in an effort to have Me draw some kind of conclusion from all this.

    Also, I did answer Your Question above before, just in case You missed it.
    "
    To the first, every single one I have ever seen in My entire life. And thats quite a few."
     
  16. mastercole

    mastercole Master Black Belt

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    You were very specific.

    [​IMG] Originally Posted by Cyriacus [​IMG]
    And some "Old School" Organisations never used Makiwara throughout the course of Their Organisations existence.

    I simply wanted to know which "Old School Organizations" by name, if you can.
     
  17. Cyriacus

    Cyriacus Senior Master

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    Now, I presume that by Old School, We mean among the founders of the System, since We can only really go back to the 50s? In which case, Ive already answered that. With the exception of an Instructors Preference, the ITF. For that matter, the GTF also (Albeit they werent founded back in the 50s/60s. Its just a fairly big organisation, which doesnt seem to use them).
     
  18. mastercole

    mastercole Master Black Belt

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    The development of the reverse punch in the “Old School” days of the Kwan was centered around training on the “talyunbong”, or, in ground makiwara, for all schools. Today this practice has mostly disappeared in favor of the use of more modern training equipment and methods.

    All the “Old School” Taekwondo Organizations used the talyunbong (in-ground makiwara). These started in the 1940's They are:

    Chung Do Kwan
    Jidokwan
    Chang Moo Kwan
    Moo Duk Kwan
    Song Moo Kwan

    Their spin off schools also used the talyunbong. These started in the 1950's They are:

    Oh Do Kwan (also root of ITF)
    Han Moo Kwan
    Kang Duk Won
    Jung Do Kwan

    These 9 schools are as “Old School” as one can get in Taekwondo.

    Every single Taekwondo practitioner and every single Taekwondo organization can trace their lineage back to one of these 9 Kwan.
     
  19. Cyriacus

    Cyriacus Senior Master

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    I cant say Im surprised by that; However, I do recall reading one possible exception in My adventures with Google.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chong_Chul_Rhee
    I see very early affiliation with the KTA
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea_Taekwondo_Association
    And the early ITF later

    However, thats the only affiliations Im seeing listed anywere.
    I also know for a fact, that as long as Theyve gone by their current name (1965ish), They have never used Makiwara. Or Talyunbong. Or any Striking Posts.
     
  20. mastercole

    mastercole Master Black Belt

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    GM Rhee is from the Oh Do Kwan, they trained with talyunbong, aka forging post.

    ITF founder and KTA President CHOI Hong Hi had diagrams in his books on how to build and use the talyunbong, the KTA members were all from kwan that used the talyunbong.

    From interview with GM Rhee of Australia:

    What are your opinions of the various forms of supplementary training that martial artists can use? For example, running, bag and makiwara training, weight training etc?

    GM Rhee: "We use the forging Post, of course, to condition the knuckles and the wrist etc for destruction. The forging post is also very useful for developing hip power."

    Note: The above taken from CHONG CHUL RHEE of Australia REPRINTED FROM MARCH 1985 ISSUE OF AUSTRALASIAN FIGHTING ARTS MAGAZINE123
     

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