New anti Sine Wave pattern deliveries on Youtube

Discussion in 'Tae-Kwon-Do' started by Acronym, Dec 28, 2020.

  1. Earl Weiss

    Earl Weiss Senior Master

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    Interesting performance. _ see how he leans as part of move #1. This is something I saw in progeny of Han Cha Kyo. Never understood it. Asked the General's son about it since I knew he trained under GM Han for a time. he was incredulous. sadly GM Han died before I could ask about it. But I had a chance to ask GM Nam if he knew anything about this variation and he said "That's Han Cha Kyo's technique. " so it seems it was something GM Han did to make it his own. Sadly, his progeny had no idea that is what they were doing. I would no be surprised if this person had strong CDK roots.
     
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  2. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    I don't agree that the rear wood motion in L stance constitutes a hip twist but even if you would argue that it does, that only proves that (1) does not mean what you think it does, because it does not apply to walking stance reverse punch. and (1) was a general principle.

    Choi in fact guarantees that it does not mean that, since he does not want the body twisted when raising and lowering in walking stance, as he told the student.
     
  3. Earl Weiss

    Earl Weiss Senior Master

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    You misstate what I said. I did not state "rear wood motion in L stance constitutes a hip twist " I said if you are in a half facing stance which could be L or walking stance and you are going to be doing a rear hand punch then the hip moving forward from half to full face is the hip twist. Now, if you think that every punch irrespective of the starting hip position required some reward and then forward motion of the hip and this was eliminated I think what you are seeing was elimination of something that was from previous systems and carried over into General Choi's system but was never what he intended or taught.
    So the first problem is to define what you mean by the allegedly eliminated "Hip Twist" Was that always a required rearward (Cocking) and then forward motion of the hip irrespective of initial hip position?
     
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  4. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    I don't know what you are referring to but I would say that particular Chang Hon of-shoot is about as far removed from the ITF as I've seen, including 70s ITF. To me he is doing Karate rythm with TKD forms.

    This pattern delivery still has an overall TKD flavor to it, even though a lay person might not see it.

     
  5. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    I'm referring to hip twist at point of impact. Whether (3) was part and parcel of the original system doesn't make your or me anymore right in this discussion.

    What I tried conveying is that you don't hip twist cocking a strike, especially not if you intend to hip twist on impact. It would result in a very jerky rhythm that bares no resemblance to Sine Wave.

    Merely turning slightly back (cocking) and then forward does not render the strike a hip twist. You can throw a push punch from that same sequence of moves.

    You will note that jerking the hip is absent from the SW parameters, but is present in the general attack technique parameters.
     
  6. dvcochran

    dvcochran Grandmaster

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    I could be a little critical of the stance work (I feel that is systemic differences). But those kicks are legit.
     
  7. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    Which clip are you referring to?
     
  8. Earl Weiss

    Earl Weiss Senior Master

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    I never notice before but Yul Guk move #1 he steps with the wrong - right foot and it should be the left foot!
     
  9. dvcochran

    dvcochran Grandmaster

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    Hwa Rang Hyung
     
  10. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    I notice in these 70s clip that power is greater but control is neglected. There are no side kick holdouts, kicking form isn't as disciplined post kick, rechambers are sloppier. This goes hand in hand with a power focus. You normally need to make a decision between form and power. If you commit everything to the first strike, your body is not in position to follow it up.

    My instructor is very old school and wants full commitment into strikes and does not care about combinations. He would just line us up to blast turning punches, dolyo chagis and back kicks as hard as we can on kicking shields.

    The one thing I didn't get from ITF that I was warned beforehand about is the throws.

    I didn't expect judo classes but we never covered throws at all, which was a bummer. I know why and it's the same reason BJJ schools avoid them and that's due to no break fall training and basketball surfaces... So all we is do joint manipulation and takedowns but no throws.
     
  11. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I honestly can't decide if you're arrogant, ignorant, or purposely obtuse. It seems a combination of at least two are present.
     
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  12. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Do you really not know that sometimes folks disagree about how to interpret and apply principles?
     
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  13. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Both of my first instructors in my primary art loved to tell stories of students who - a few years in - suddenly understood something they'd been told for years. Sometimes, the students can only absorb a portion of what's taught, and the rest has to be worked out later.
     
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  14. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    You're making a strong assertion that 1 comes before 2. But 2 and 3 are clearly simultaneous, so it seems likely the three are all meant to overlap.
     
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  15. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    You don't really read to understand, do you? You just look for something to argue about, to deflect from the possibility of having to admit there's a point to the other argument.
     
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  16. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    If you think someone's roots vanish over a decade or so, you're mistaken. I still show my Judo roots (first grappling I trained in), and I haven't trained in Judo in 30 years.
     
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  17. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    Why are you butting into this? You said that you don't even understand what SW is
     
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  18. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Well, that will be two of you then.
     
  19. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    No, I hold a rank passed intermediate and have 6 years of training, of which 4 are in the dojang
     
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  20. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Oh wow, I am singularly unimpressed.

    You aren't actually much past a beginner, four years under an instructor simply isn't long enough to build up the base of knowledge that would entitle you to criticise senior instructors. There is nothing, of course, that entitled you to be rude, obnoxious and arrogant nor to make personal attacks which are not allowed on here.

    For a short while it was amusing watching you trying to justify your posts, much like watching a drunk staggering up an icy slope but it becomes tedious when it's clear that the drunk is whinging and full of feacal matter. The chaps here are far more polite than I and put up with more nonsense than most posters on other sites do but I'm a grumpy old woman who will quite happily tell you that your manner is embarrassing. It doesn't matter whether you are correct about sine wave or not, the way you address people is bang out of order, you don't discuss you harangue and belittle. It's getting you nowhere, unless you count bumping up your post count.
    Now run along and play nicely.123
     
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