MMA vs TaiChi

OP
Hanzou

Hanzou

Grandmaster
Joined
Sep 29, 2013
Messages
6,770
Reaction score
1,330
Like I said before in the end did he really win? Because to me if you are asking for police protection, loosing your job, everyone hate you, perhaps even getting death threats you didn't win you lost. Martial arts isn't about just winning a physical fight it is about surviving and going home at night. So ya that taiji wantabe may have lost a fight but he gets to sleep well at night, gets to spend time with his family and walk outside while this mma guy can't even take a **** without someone wanting to get at him.

It's better to consider Xu a sacrifice for the greater good of martial arts. Yeah, his life is probably ruined, but his little exhibition is going to help facilitate the spread of MMA/Bjj into China, and hasten the decline of phony martial arts.

That can only be considered a good thing.
 

DanT

2nd Black Belt
Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
702
Reaction score
289
Location
Planet X
If you guys watch the interview with Xu he explicitly mentions that:

-The fight does not represent MMA vs Kung Fu
-Tai Chi can be an effective style
-The fight was about personal beef
-He was trying to prove the master was a fake
 

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
13,954
Reaction score
5,843
Like I said before in the end did he really win? Because to me if you are asking for police protection, loosing your job, everyone hate you, perhaps even getting death threats you didn't win you lost. Martial arts isn't about just winning a physical fight it is about surviving and going home at night. So ya that taiji wantabe may have lost a fight but he gets to sleep well at night, gets to spend time with his family and walk outside while this mma guy can't even take a **** without someone wanting to get at him.
Looks like they won't be forgetting the fight anytime soon
 

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
13,954
Reaction score
5,843
If you guys watch the interview with Xu he explicitly mentions that:

-The fight does not represent MMA vs Kung Fu
-Tai Chi can be an effective style
-The fight was about personal beef
-He was trying to prove the master was a fake
People will miss that point right along with self proclaimed tai chi master title
 

oaktree

Master of Arts
Joined
May 19, 2010
Messages
1,683
Reaction score
264
Location
Under an Oaktree
It's better to consider Xu a sacrifice for the greater good of martial arts. Yeah, his life is probably ruined, but his little exhibition is going to help facilitate the spread of MMA/Bjj into China, and hasten the decline of phony martial arts.

That can only be considered a good thing.
It's not going to change things in China people already do bjj and mma and people already do traditional Chinese arts.
For the record xu says he has respect for taijiquan people and acknowledge that there are some who can fight.
 

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
13,954
Reaction score
5,843
It's better to consider Xu a sacrifice for the greater good of martial arts. Yeah, his life is probably ruined, but his little exhibition is going to help facilitate the spread of MMA/Bjj into China, and hasten the decline of phony martial arts.

That can only be considered a good thing.
I see it playing out like this as well. I don't think Tai Chi will get hit as hard as the other CMAS like Hung Ga, Wing Chun etc. People will need to be honest with why they train. I recently told the students at at my school not to make assumptions beyond their training focus. I also told them that training for fitness is a valid reason. Just don't assume that they can fight or use self defense if they aren't in the sparring class where we train with that focus and practice in the context of someone attacking.
 

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
13,954
Reaction score
5,843
Well xu life is ruined and he has stalkers so might just get killed in an alley.
Yep always a possibility even if he didn't fight. I like what he did, but not how he did it. I also understand his frustration with people teaching martial arts and claiming that the teaching is good enough for self defense. Any other industry would have been sued for false claims.
 

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
13,954
Reaction score
5,843
It's not going to change things in China people already do bjj and mma and people already do traditional Chinese arts.
For the record xu says he has respect for taijiquan people and acknowledge that there are some who can fight.
1 out of 10. He also never said to my knowledge that Tai Chi was a useless system. He just doesn't like the fake demos and claims nor the personal insult he claimed to have gotten. It's always amazing how things like this could have been avoided had there been an "ignore button" where one just walks away.
 
OP
Hanzou

Hanzou

Grandmaster
Joined
Sep 29, 2013
Messages
6,770
Reaction score
1,330
It's not going to change things in China people already do bjj and mma and people already do traditional Chinese arts.
For the record xu says he has respect for taijiquan people and acknowledge that there are some who can fight.

Traditional martial arts in China have been declining for decades. Again, stuff like this doesn't help matters.

Xu has respect for Taiji now, under pressure from various people. The problem is that before and immediately after the fight he was calling Taiji "useless" and not for fighting, and he then proceeded to beat his challenger in 10 seconds.
 

VPT

Green Belt
Joined
May 11, 2017
Messages
156
Reaction score
45
First post here!

I'm not really sure if people here know how deep the fraud with Lei Lei actually is and what's his fame. He has performed in Chinese MA tv-shows feats that were actually faked by the producers to make it look like he had tremendous "internal skill". Take this scene of striking a melon, for example. Xu Xiaodong told that it was revealed to him being rolled on the ground before shooting:

According to Xu's interview, Lei Lei was also totally delusional about his fighting prowess before the bout. I'm fairly confident this must be a very common disease among CMAs in China and abroad. (Luckily I have no trouble admitting of getting my butt whooped any day by any more athletic individual in competitive MAs. :))

Surprisingly, contrary to this forum, everyone in my kung fu circles seems to be very happy about Xu Xiaodong breathing some fresh air and giving a reality check to TMAists: Can you actually fight?. Even Lü Baochun, one of Europe's most prominent and respected teachers of Baji and internal arts thinks this fight "should wake Chinese martial arts up, otherwise they will die".
 

Steve

Mostly Harmless
Joined
Jul 9, 2008
Messages
21,918
Reaction score
7,474
Location
Covington, WA
First post here!

I'm not really sure if people here know how deep the fraud with Lei Lei actually is and what's his fame. He has performed in Chinese MA tv-shows feats that were actually faked by the producers to make it look like he had tremendous "internal skill". Take this scene of striking a melon, for example. Xu Xiaodong told that it was revealed to him being rolled on the ground before shooting:

According to Xu's interview, Lei Lei was also totally delusional about his fighting prowess before the bout. I'm fairly confident this must be a very common disease among CMAs in China and abroad. (Luckily I have no trouble admitting of getting my butt whooped any day by any more athletic individual in competitive MAs. :))

Surprisingly, contrary to this forum, everyone in my kung fu circles seems to be very happy about Xu Xiaodong breathing some fresh air and giving a reality check to TMAists: Can you actually fight?. Even Lü Baochun, one of Europe's most prominent and respected teachers of Baji and internal arts thinks this fight "should wake Chinese martial arts up, otherwise they will die".
Welcome to MT.
 

Buka

Sr. Grandmaster
Staff member
MT Mentor
Joined
Jun 27, 2011
Messages
12,952
Reaction score
10,443
Location
Maui
I think Tai-chi will be alive and well long after MMA has come and gone.
 

Kung Fu Wang

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
14,041
Reaction score
4,488
Location
Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
How to use Taiji only (without mixing any other CMA systems) to become a good Taiji fighter? Is it possible? IMO, it's possible. Taiji has all the basic striking tools. It can be an effective striking system if train properly. Does Taiji has all the wrestling tools? May be not. But you don't have to learn 300 throws to be a wrestler. If you can master "cloud hand - body control", you can use it to defeat your opponent over and over.

IMO, the issue is the students. Taiji attracts a special kind of students. When those students become teachers, they attract a special kind of students again. If you don't have any students who are willing to test the Taiji skill that you taught them to deal with people from other MA systems, it will be very difficult to develop reputation for your Taiji system as a "fighting art".
 

VPT

Green Belt
Joined
May 11, 2017
Messages
156
Reaction score
45
How to use Taiji only (without mixing any other CMA systems) to become a good Taiji fighter? Is it possible? IMO, it's possible. Taiji has all the basic striking tools. It can be an effective striking system if train properly. Does Taiji has all the wrestling tools? May be not. But you don't have to learn 300 throws to be a wrestler. If you can master "cloud hand - body control", you can use it to defeat your opponent over and over.

It should be possible. ;)





(Just learn to practice effectively.)
 

Headhunter

Senior Master
Joined
Aug 26, 2016
Messages
4,765
Reaction score
1,598
Traditional martial arts in China have been declining for decades. Again, stuff like this doesn't help matters.

Xu has respect for Taiji now, under pressure from various people. The problem is that before and immediately after the fight he was calling Taiji "useless" and not for fighting, and he then proceeded to beat his challenger in 10 seconds.
Declining for decades? Wow they're taking their time to die then aren't they
 

Ironbear24

Senior Master
Joined
Dec 7, 2015
Messages
2,103
Reaction score
482
It's better to consider Xu a sacrifice for the greater good of martial arts. Yeah, his life is probably ruined, but his little exhibition is going to help facilitate the spread of MMA/Bjj into China, and hasten the decline of phony martial arts.

That can only be considered a good thing.

It already has for decades. It is called Sanda. This literally did nothing but make both participants look like idiots and one of them is possibly branded for life.
 
OP
Hanzou

Hanzou

Grandmaster
Joined
Sep 29, 2013
Messages
6,770
Reaction score
1,330
It already has for decades. It is called Sanda. This literally did nothing but make both participants look like idiots and one of them is possibly branded for life.

Sanda is its own sport. MMA is a different sport than Sanda.

If you really think this did nothing, you're simply not paying attention. ;)
 

Ironbear24

Senior Master
Joined
Dec 7, 2015
Messages
2,103
Reaction score
482
Sanda is its own sport. MMA is a different sport than Sanda.

If you really think this did nothing, you're simply not paying attention. ;)

I said it did nothing beneficial. Sanda is a collection of styles brought together that includes striking and grappling. Much like japanese Kudo.
 

Latest Discussions

Top