MMA vs TaiChi

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by Hanzou, May 9, 2017.

  1. Hanzou

    Hanzou Grandmaster

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    The backstory is that prior to the bout, MMA fighter Xu had criticized traditional martial arts for being outdated and “a lie” without combat purposes, strongly insulting Tai-Chi in particular. In response Wei challenged him to a duel. The stage was set in Chengdu, China in front of a large crowd with a referee and MC.

    It ends the way you expect.



    My question is this; Are internal styles like TaiChi really for fighting, or are they actually just a form of moving meditation? Also, what's going on with all of these new vids of softer styles trying to fight with MMA guys?
     
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  2. hoshin1600

    hoshin1600 Senior Master

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    is it possible that MMA is just now reaching the general Chinese audience ?

    i know people are going to disagree but i do not think the way they have evolved is practical for fighting.
    even martial arts in general has changed in China over the last 50 -100 years. i had heard from top okinawan karate-ka that visited china in the 1970's that conversations with the Chinese martial artists had said that there was a time when the real fighting arts had to go underground due to political controll. the Government pushed the "new" wushu versions of arts that were visually pleasing VS effective. the older fighting styles have for the most part died out. the new generation are more into poke"mon Go on their Iphone and have no interest in martial arts.
     
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  3. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    Oh for god sake here we go again. Mods may as well get ready to lock this up now
     
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  4. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    and everyone made a nice pile of money especially the bookmakers.
     
  5. oaktree

    oaktree Master of Arts

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    Let's say as a taijiquan guy and you are a mma guy first thing is I wouldn't fight you in a ring or with rules or anything actually hell what I would use most likely wouldn't look like taijiquan to you. so we meet face to face you square off in some boxing whatever stance and I stand there you go to punch me or rush me or whatever and I shoot you. I then explain as you lay there bleeding how I used wuji and silk reeling to pull the gun out the rotation of my dantian to move the holster. Or say I use a bat against your knee cap and as you lay there with a broken knee explain how that is in the taiji sword routine.
    My point is I am not interested in which style is better don't care I am interested in stopping a threat by any means.
     
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  6. DanT

    DanT 2nd Black Belt

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    Some points:

    1. The guy obviously wasn't that good at tai chi if he can't block straight punches and be able to side step.

    2. His only defence was to backpedal

    3. Years of tai chi form training and he still doesn't have enough balance to stay on his feet.

    In conclusion the guy wasn't very good at tai chi. Kudos to him for stepping up tho.
     
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  7. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    What you are seeing is something that we have talked about numerous times in here. Martial artists who train and believe they can fight even though they do not train to fight. Anyone who has ever done sparring can see from the beginning that the Tai Chi guy never did any sparring at the level of the match that he got into. His body language showed that he lack the understanding of the situation he was in. His body movement reminded me of how students in my class move when they spar for the first time.

    A reporter interviewed the MMA guy later on and one of the things he said is that Tai Chi is real but only 1 out of 10 schools is the real Tai Chi. The rest are fake. He seems to be upset with the McDojo's of Chinese Kung Fu who mislead people into thinking that they can use what they are learning to fight even though they never train to actually fight with it. A reporter also interviewed the self proclaimed tai chi master and the tai chi master said that had he really used real tai chi that the MMA fighter would have died 7 days later. MMA point proven
    Here's the link to that video. Jet Li sums it up very realistically. We have said as much here. By the way, the mindset that "real kung fu" is no longer needed is something that is shared with a lot of other Chinese. They make the assumption that because of guns that there is no need to learn how to physically fight. I have a classmate from China who says the same thing and every time he says it, I want to punch him in his mouth and ask him how much did a gun help him. I'm not sure why they ignore all of the evidence where someone had to physically defend themselves. Even armed police have to physically defend themselves at times, long enough to where they can either reach their gun or restrain the attacker.

    This is the interview that I referenced


    The videos below show a different body language about the situation they are in.


     
  8. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    Fact is there are terrible mma fighters out there that traditional guys could easily destroy. For example Jason Thacker off tuf 1 do you really believe he'd last against a high level martial artist of any style.
     
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  9. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    I think it was the Tai Chi's guy's arrogance or assumption of his ability that got him into the ring. My entire thing is that if a person is going to lose a Martial Arts fight then lose by actually doing the techniques from the system that you train. Don't get out there and lose without having done any techniques that you use in training. The Tai Chi guy didn't even have basic fighting footwork down. He backpedaled for almost the full length of the fighting area.
     
  10. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    The only difference is that terrible MMA fighters don't go and make spectacles of themselves claiming that they can do super human things. The same cannot be said of terrible Traditional Martial Artist who claim how powerful they are in a fight even though they never train to fight.
     
  11. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    No they just and get themselves seriously injured by being deluded enough to think they're good enough to compete
     
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  12. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    If it's this simple to test one's skill....
     
  13. Hanzou

    Hanzou Grandmaster

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    It would seem that these types of exhibitions are having a disastrous effect on traditional CMAs. People see this and believe that TCMAs are simply relics of a bygone era, and that modern martial arts are simply more applicable for self defense and other purposes. The person you wanted to punch in the face reminds me of this peculiar situation.

    I remember reading several articles about traditional CMA fading out and MMA/Bjj moving in to fill the void. It would seem that fights where traditional chinese MAs are man-handled easily by MMA and other modern methods are simply hastening the decline of traditional Chinese martial arts.
     
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  14. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    he didn't put up as much resistance as an untrained but reasonably handy chap might of
     
  15. Hanzou

    Hanzou Grandmaster

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  16. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    So it's obvious he's not legitimate and didnt learn properly so he isn't a true representation of the style which makes this whole thing completely pointless
     
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  17. Hanzou

    Hanzou Grandmaster

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    A self taught MMA guy beating a bunch of Tai Chi masters doesn't look good for traditional Chinese martial arts.
     
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  18. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    That is an accurate description of him in regards to martial arts. I'm sure he has the same mentality in other areas as well, where he thinks things of the past are insignificant and useless in today's context. Western society tend to be the total opposite where methods and techniques of the past are significant to the present and future.

    It appears that they get a lot of fake martial arts there where people teach it for a living and not really know what they are doing. To them it's just a business. Sort of like the Mcdojos in western society.

    I hope they have spent some time sparring against other systems or sparring in general. They will fail too if they haven't sparred before.
     
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  19. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    That's not what is actually making the situation look bad or good. The fact that he's beating a bunch of people who claim to be dangerous with Tai Chi is the problem. Had the Tai Chi "Master" boasted about his abilities then this video would be just an ordinary fighting video.

    After they had the fight, The news discovered that the Tai Chi "Master" was self-proclaimed there was no record of his formal training. Either that or the school that actually trained him disown him after his performance. lol
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2017
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  20. oaktree

    oaktree Master of Arts

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    Actually it's a better fighter beat a weaker fighter. Had it been taijiquan master beats self taught fighter would you then post taijiquan beats mma?123
     
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