Is there something wrong with me?

Discussion in 'The Locker Room Bar & Grill' started by amateur, Jan 12, 2019.

  1. amateur

    amateur Orange Belt

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    What's the difference between forums and advice columns? This is how I see it: In an advice column, you post a question, the column author, who is considered an expert at the field, gives you advice and that's about it. In a thread, you can also initiate further conversation. Otherwise, you might as well lock a thread after the first reply has been posted.
    And yet, whenever I try to progress with a conversation, this is perceived as 'stubborness', 'narrow mindedness', 'arrogance' etc
    I have been banned from more forums than I can count and it always began like that. Some members started feeling annoyed, I would try to explain to them that I did nothing bad and then, before I knew it, without a single prior warning point, I would see the message: 'You are banned from (insert forum)/Reason: No reason/Date the ban will be lifted: Never'. Whenever I tried to contact the mods and propose we try to find a more peaceful solution, they did not even reply to my emails. So, sometimes, I'm like: 'WTF am I doing wrong and I exasperate them to that extent?'
    This is not just an online thing. Nobody likes me in real life either, I never had any friends. One time, when I was 15, a guy told me that he liked my sister and wanted to marry her and I was like: 'Ok,' and that made him super happy and, for a while, we would chat and he would call me 'brother in law', but, one day, during a conversation, he got mad at me all of sudden and he told me he has had enough with me and my theories and, ever since, whenever I tried to even say 'hi' to him, he was like 'go away, nazi'. (I don't know what he finally did with my sis, if he did anything, and I don't care, this is off topic.)
    Anyway, in this forum, I have seen signs of the 'annoyance phase', the period during which some members find me annoying, which is always followed pretty fast with the sudden perma ban with no right to appeal.
    I might even see this message the next time I login. But what do I do wrong and every person who meets me, be it online or in real life, hates my guts after a while? Do I talk too much? Do I suffer from lack of awareness of when I should stop talking?
    The fact that no one ever even bothers explaining to me what I do wrong means my mistake is pretty obvious by social rules but I cannot see it because I'm naive or stupid or whatever.
    Or am I just born a jerk? One time, I heard an old woman say: 'Humans are born, not made. You cannot turn into a nice person, even if you want to.' So, if she's right and I'm born a jerk and I'll never be likeable, should I just stop bothering and accept the fact I'll never have any social life and never make it in a forum past a few weeks or months?
    (Gosh, I can't believe I wrote all the above. What's got into me? But, after all that hard work, I don't feel like erasing my text. Maybe I have regretted it by tomorrow morning, lol.)
     
  2. CB Jones

    CB Jones Senior Master

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    Long as you follow the rules you shouldn't have a problem here.

    When it comes to dealing with people...(and I have to remind myself of this often)...people have the right to be wrong (lol)....so make your points....think about other peoples points and move on.

    ;)
     
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  3. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Most of the questions your asking here would be better to talk with a therapist about, rather than online, particularly the stuff with your possible brother-in-law/lack of friends. There's most likely some behavioral stuff at work that we can't really tell online. And a lot of what people consider 'nice' is behavioral stuff that can actually be changed, once you understand what it is.

    However, I have noticed that a couple of your replies to people on here who disagree with you have been dismissive/devaluing the person who disagrees (calling people hun/sweetie, for one), and you seem to respond to minor picks at you very defensively. My guess is that you may get defensive like that in real life, which could cause problems in friendships. Sometimes it helps to just accept other people may have an attitude, for whatever reason, and either ignore it or not engage with that person if you can't ignore it.
     
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  4. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    I don’t know, Amatuer, I think you’re pretty cool.

    I think the internet in general is as you described. I don’t think it should be taken too seriously.

    Stick around, I’ll bet you’ll feel more comfortable with every passing month.
     
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  5. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    It's possible you miss some communication cues (which are even harder to pick up on forums). It's also possible some forums (and some of their members) are touchy. Some combination of those two affects all of us to different extents.

    If you put forth the effort to understand what people are saying (and it seems like you're doing that), then you'll probably do okay. Remember, sometimes other people will miss your cues, too, so be generous when judging their actions toward you. I do like that you've accepted some of it might be your fault...remember some of it might be theirs, too.
     
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  6. spidersam

    spidersam Orange Belt

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    I agree. If you’re having trouble conversing, this is something that should be overcome in person first. The internet is not a fair representation of reality. If this has been going on your whole life, kempodisciple’s suggestion for a therapist may solve your troubles.

    If you don’t want to see anybody, a good book (this may sound corny, but give it a shot) is How to Win Friends and Influence People. It really does help you understand the art of understanding others and bettering yourself.

    If you find you’re defensiveness is often the turning point in conversations, it might just be your response to disagreements that needs a little tweaking. When I debate, I do not take things personally. It’s two people trying to solve a puzzle from different sides. Mind you, some people are stinkers and will shoot you down/try to hurt your feelings. Brush them off.

    I’ve learned you cannot understand others until you understand yourself. Always listen and put yourself in other people’s shoes before doubting. And of course, treat others the way you want to be treated (again unless they’re stinkers ;)).
     
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  7. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

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    I'm not even going to try to address "real life"... that takes someone who can see and talk to you directly. In that regard, there are a number of books on conversation and communication skills available, and many have something of use in them. Communication is definitely a skill, and takes work...

    As to forums... different forums have different tones and rules, whether written or unwritten. It's often easy to miss the hidden rules, and it's often a good idea to simply spend some time reading threads and hanging around the edges before you jump in. That way, you get a feel for how people participate there. Here at MartialTalk, we strive to be a friendly place, open to discussing many different arts and staying out of the various style wars. We encourage people to have reasonably well thought out ideas and opinions, and to present them that way, avoiding "'cause I said so!" or similar meaningless arguments. We encourage decent writing, requiring mostly English and avoiding lots of the internet shorthands. DO make use of emojis and smilies and the like to add some tone to your writing, because we lose so much in written communication since the vast majority of communication is non-verbal...

    You may be presenting your ideas, your theories, and your opinions too forcefully, or simply at the wrong time. If you insist on arguing that no martial art makes appropriate use of the left middle toe, and you shove that opinion and argument into each and every thread and discussion -- you'll wear out your welcome, you know? If your arguments never take into account what the other person has said, or simply restate again and again the same things, rather than responding to others... again, people will get fed up with you. Or if you claim expertise without evidence, and don't allow that someone else just might know a thing or two... Yep, folks won't like you.

    I suggest you spend some time looking at posts here. Look at the people who post effectively and seem popular. Emulate the things that seem to make them popular. And look at the posters who constantly seem to increase friction when they participate... try to see the things they do that you catch yourself doing, too. Then... one way that internet communication like this beats face-to-face is the ability to delete or pull your words back before you send them... Many times, I've written a post, paused, looked at it... and decided not to share it or to rewrite it heavily. Sometimes, if I'm replying in a heated thread... I'll literally write my response, walk away or go to another browser tab for a few minutes... and come back, and re-read it, and decide if I really want to send it.
     
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  8. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    Some people find me annoying while other people don't. This is just how life is. I'm fine with it as long as me being annoying occurs while I'm being respectful to others. I can't control how other's feel about me, but I can control my behavior. As long as I'm respectful then the rest of the stuff doesn't matter. As long as I'm being respectful, I just automatically assume that they are the one's with the problem and not me.

    This reminds the short conversation about small details. Like gpseymour stated, you are probably just missing cues. Most cues are subtle as most people really don't come out and say what they really feel. They just hope you'll eventually pick up on you but when you don't it builds their frustration. This isn't your fault. People should be clear what they feel and most of the times they aren't.

    I can tell you this. The only people who want to hear your theories is a person who shares the same theory. I find it best to say it once and then drop it if they don't continue the conversation in agreement. Sometimes our theories may be offensive so if they don't join in agreement or curiosity then it's just best not to share those thoughts with that person.
     
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  9. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    When you start a thread, you want to collect all kind of responds. This will include responds that you agree and also the respond that you don't agree. You should put yourself in "listen" mode. Your opinion is no longer important. Quite often, people just start a thread so he can argue with everybody. IMO, if you start a thread, you should let others to argue, but you should stay out of it.

    IMO, the following discussion is not proper.

    A: What's the best MA style?
    B: MA style X is the best.
    C: MA style Y is the best.
    A: I think X is better than Y.
    C: If you already know it, why are you still asking?
    A: ...
    C: @#$%^&
    A: &^%$#@
     
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  10. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Yeah. You can just math interactions out until people like you.

    It is a bit boring and repetitive but it works.

    I used to do that bouncing.
     
  11. amateur

    amateur Orange Belt

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    I don't think my bans are a matter of rule breaking. I made it for a few weeks/months on every forum I was banned from until, one day, I saw the 'banned' message. I didn't suddenly change my behaviour after a few weeks nor do I think I accidentally break a rule after a while; I guess people just get tired of me after a while, the annoyance I cause them slowly builds up until they stop talking to me (real life) or ban me (internet).
    There was even a case where I stayed in a forum for months without a single person feeling annoyed. They all seemed to be getting along with me. I believed that, like Ugly Duckling, I had finally found a place where I can belong and I typed in a post: 'Thanks guys, you're the only people who have no problem with my character. On any other forum I have ever been on, I get banned after a while.' Then, a member replied (sarcastically?): 'I can't imagine why.' The next day, I saw the usual perma ban message for no reason and I sent many appeals trying to figure out what had happened all of sudden, but nobody ever replied.
    A strange thing I forgot to mention is that, sometimes, they seem to be giving me a second chance, but, right after that, before I can do anything else, they decide not to give me a second chance after all.
    For instance, one time, I was standing in a bookshop's corridor reading a book and a customer asked me to move aside so that she could pass but I didn't and told her the F word. A few days later, in the same bookshop, the owner approached and said 'If you ever harass customers again, you are banned from the shop.' I was about to say 'ok' or something but, the very next moment, before I could even respond, he said 'Actually, you know what, leave already. You are banned. Leave and don't show up in my shop ever again.' Regardless of whether it was polite of me to use the F word, I can't explain why one moment the owner just warned me he would ban me if I repeated that kind of behaviour and, the very next moment, he changed his mind and banned me.
    Another time, on a forum with M rated stories/fanfictions, I was like 'this guy's story could use some improvement', so I wrote a remake of it and posted it and the mods locked the thread and were like 'plagiarism is a reason for ban; don't do it again'. I shrugged and was like 'ok', even though what I did was not exactly plagiarism (I had clearly written the word 'remake' in my story's title). A few days passed without me remaking other stories, until, one day, I saw the message: 'You're banned/Reason: Plagiarism/Date the ban expires: Never'.
     
  12. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    This may be the center of the issue.
     
  13. amateur

    amateur Orange Belt

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    Ok, but why didn't he tell me 'leave' in the first place instead of saying 'if you do this again, you leave' only to tell me 'leave' the very next moment?
     
  14. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Force yourself to be around normal healthy individuals. And eventually what they are doing should run off on you.

    Is it you who is doing the ninjitsu and systema?

    Cos that could be half your problem.
     
  15. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple MT Moderator Staff Member

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    People are flighty sometimes. But you can only change your own behavior, not how others react to it, and it was your behavior that caused the issue. In that case it's obvious what you should have done/what you can change about it, but do you understand why your actions on the writing forum was an issue?
     
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  16. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    May be from your respond (or your body language) that changed his mind.

    A: If you do this again, you have to leave.
    B: Who is going to make me?
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019
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  17. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

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    Use the ignore button to ignore anyone who berates you for asking questions.

    It's done wonders for my time here.
     
  18. amateur

    amateur Orange Belt

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    It's hopeless. When people start being annoyed at me on a forum, the day I'll see the perma ban message (with no right to appeal) is soon to come. It has happened countless times and it will happen here too. I might as well leave already...
     
  19. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

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    If you're getting banned from one forum, that's probably a problem with that forum. If you get banned from every forum, you might want to look at what you're doing that's upsetting people.
     
  20. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

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    Do you see the problem with this behavior? If you don't -- your problems are much deeper than you understand. It's not just impolite, it's offensive. The owner's response? I suspect that either there were other incidents that you're not aware of, or that you responded in a way that led him to decide it wasn't worth it. Especially if you're treating his business like a library...

    You DID break the rules. You took someone else's work, modified it somewhat, and presented it as your own. I don't know the rules there -- but, at a bare minimum, I would think that just maybe they expected you to get permission before rewriting someone else's work and presenting it as your own. Again -- failing to understand this suggests deeper issues than you understand.
     

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