Hapkido instructor claims that jump spinning kicks in TKD came from Hapkido

[Gerry Seymour]

Define reasonable grip. If they don't know the fundamentals of submission grappling on the ground (top position, guard, side control, sweeps) they don't stand a chance against anyone passed beginner in BJJ or Judo for that matter

The fundamentals pretty much define "reasonable grip".

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Because it related to your objection that Hapkido and Taekwondo are differential arts. I quoted a student of an instructor who barely did any joint manipulation and wrist locks, yet trained in a Hapkido school.

What I then did was simply add to his statement that wrist locks are irrelevant on somebody doing a tackle on you, because there is no time to perform it.

The clip posted in response to that was grip fighting without takedowns.

So, again, what are you trying to prove?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I simply forgot about Japanese Ju Jutsu

So, you did say "TMA", but meant "all TMA except Japanese Ju Jutsu"?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You can't apply them without controlling the opponent first with wrestling, which is impossible for a Hapkido expert since he doesn't do wrestling in his art.

Define "wreslting", then? Because if I'd written that statement, it would be something like, "You can't apply them without controlling the opponent first by breaking down his structure and limiting his movement."

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Beck Martial Arts - Controversial Hapkido Frequently Asked Questions
What's the difference between Sin Moo Hapkido and other kinds of Hapkido?

Not much. There is a lot of variance throughout Hapkido, with a wide spread of the amounts of focus on particular types of techniques. But to be called Hapkido it should have some defenses versus all ranges and all types of attacks; and it should include kicks, strikes, throws, joint locks, and pressure points. The percentage of time spent on any particular types of techniques varies much more with the particular instructor than with a particular HKD organization or kwan. Sin Moo Hapkido has essentially the same techniques as other kinds of Hapkido.

And the point of that post?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Nor are TKD schools. That doesn't negate the fact that at their core, the content is the same or virtually the same, just intermixed differently

You're quite certain of that from your extensive visits to many HKD and TKD schools across the world?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I don't believe your anecdote and regardless, the US is hardly representative of a KOREAN martial art. The US is infamous for watering down and destroying martial arts and creating Mcdojos

You are the one saying it's the same everywhere.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Why should I care what they do in the home of Mcdojos and fake lineages, that is the US? Around every corner is a Karate school, often with made up patterns by the instructor. It's the same for TaeKwonDo.

You've never been to a US Karate school, have you?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The interesting thing about your comments is that you haven't denied the validity of what I said about about the risk of kicking too high.

Just resorted to insults to deflect.

 

[Earl Weiss]

it doesn't matter if it works, it still leaves the groin and leg open to attack. The mechanics and realities will still be the same.

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Most anything leaves something open for something. That doesn't mean the technique doesn't work.

 

[Earl Weiss]

if the sign on the door say they train Hapkido then that's they train, regardless of if it meets your standards or definition of what Hapkido is.

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Sorry but I disagree. - it may mean what they train and it may not. Seen plenty of storefront schools list 12 things on their sign and maybe they do 3 of them.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Muay I don't train to do high kicks to the head, but I'm flexible enough to kick the head. If I see that I can kick the head then I'm going for it., because it's an opportunity and not "the plan."
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So, this must mean your high kicks don't work statement was meant to me qualified in some sense. Or am I missing something?

 

[Deleted member 39746]

Why does it always come back to semantics with martial arts? There is a limit to how much you can change something before its not it anymore. Like if you change all the major tenents in a ideology, can you really still call it the same name? I say no, you should change the name to reflect the fact you arent affliated at all with it besides a name. (its just dis honest at best fradulent at worse)


I have seen several place sclaim they do bartistu, they dont do it. They just do cane choregraphy, thats not bartitsu. that is blatantly dishonest or fradualent intending to get people in who want to learn bartitsu. That always annoys me, and i wish more people would militantly object to it and not fund the places that do it. (actually change my several to a couple, seen more bartitsu that does legitimately do it than not using the name)

 

[Acronym]

I noticed a pattern on this forum that people who can't do technique X are the ones who reject it.

I guess that's what we call ego?

 

[Acronym]

You're quite certain of that from your extensive visits to many HKD and TKD schools across the world?

Yes I am certain of that since I am well read on the subject and I grew up with Hapkido. I don't need to visit schools in order to qualify that statement.

I can't speak for the emphasis however, but your claim that spin kicks are rare in the US is very questionable.

This is from a random student who trained under a 9th Dan:

"We didn't do much striking practice in HKD proper aside from High/Low wheel kicks"

So spin kicks do play a large part in Hapkido as I stated.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Sorry but I disagree. - it may mean what they train and it may not. Seen plenty of storefront schools list 12 things on their sign and maybe they do 3 of them.

I'm not talking about those schools who lie about what they train. I'm talking about the schools who are honest about their training.

If the conversation shifts to schools who lie about what they train then I'll shift to there school. But right now we focusing on schools who that actually train Hapkido, because it's those schools who one would have to visit or train in, in order to know "what Hapkido schools do".

Going to a school that lies about training Hapkido won't help with understanding "How Hapkido Trains"

 

[JowGaWolf]

So, this must mean your high kicks don't work statement was meant to me qualified in some sense. Or am I missing something?

I don't remember ever saying that high kicks don't work. I think someone's responded to my comment in a way that made it seem like I was saying it. Here are the things I actually said in this thread about high kicks. Nothing about what I posted below is inaccurate.

"Kick too high and you'll expose your standing leg." post #61

"I don't train high kicks in my training, but it doesn't mean I won't kick someone in the head if the opportunity presents itself." Post# 23

"Kicks that are too high open you up for attacks to your standing leg, groin, or sweep." #28

"I don't train to do high kicks to the head, but I'm flexible enough to kick the head. If I see that I can kick the head then I'm going for it., because it's an opportunity and not "the plan." #76

 

[JowGaWolf]

I noticed a pattern on this forum that people who can't do technique X are the ones who reject it.

I guess that's what we call ego?

The only pattern in this forum is that most of us are blunt. And that certain questions and behaviors tend to pop up from time to time, that remind of when someone has brought up the same assumption or reacted the same way in the past.

From time to time we see things like that repeat.

As far as people who can't do techniques X are the ones who reject it. I would definitely say that's not the case here. There is often a lot of discussion of things that most of us can't do, and it's not rejected. Kung Fu Wang is good for tossing things like that into the discussion and at the most people may not first understand, but then he'll post additional information that allows us to better understand what we are looking at. I don't see people just rejecting him all the time.

There are a few of us who want proof by video fighting a professional MMA fighters, but that's far and few in between. The other pattern that I've seen is that people are quick to jump on nonsense posts. Anything they think is nonsense they will respond to in a blunt manner, so I don't the responses that you are getting are due to someone not being able to do it., I think it's not as easy to get away with generalities on this site.

 

[Acronym]

The only pattern in this forum is that most of us are blunt. And that certain questions and behaviors tend to pop up from time to time, that remind of when someone has brought up the same assumption or reacted the same way in the past.

From time to time we see things like that repeat.

As far as people who can't do techniques X are the ones who reject it. I would definitely say that's not the case here. There is often a lot of discussion of things that most of us can't do, and it's not rejected. Kung Fu Wang is good for tossing things like that into the discussion and at the most people may not first understand, but then he'll post additional information that allows us to better understand what we are looking at. I don't see people just rejecting him all the time.

There are a few of us who want proof by video fighting a professional MMA fighters, but that's far and few in between. The other pattern that I've seen is that people are quick to jump on nonsense posts. Anything they think is nonsense they will respond to in a blunt manner, so I don't the responses that you are getting are due to someone not being able to do it., I think it's not as easy to get away with generalities on this site.

Can you explain to me how someone who isn't even capable of executing head kicks has any say on the validity of them?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Sorry but I disagree. - it may mean what they train and it may not. Seen plenty of storefront schools list 12 things on their sign and maybe they do 3 of them.

Agree. My first NGA instructor had Aikido, Judo, Karate and something else on the door. He taught one of those (though he held rank in at least two of the others and taught some principles from them).