Hapkido instructor claims that jump spinning kicks in TKD came from Hapkido

Discussion in 'Tae-Kwon-Do' started by Acronym, Dec 24, 2020.

  1. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    But small joint manipulations,wrist locks,etc don't work against brazilian jiujitsu. He can spend an eternity on it and it wouldn't matter.

    The striking can work of course.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2020
  2. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    A reference to my reply to you about what Hapkido was called prior to the elaborate kicks
     
  3. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    This almost reminds me of the Korean guy a few years ago that hated everything about Japanese Martial arts.

    I'm trying to figure how this matters -> "All historical account of Hapkido that I've read documents that above the waist kicks in Hapkido were lifted from TaeKwonDo"

    If a person is good at kicking then they would eventually try to kick your head off regardless of the system. If it's an open target that someone might want to go for then why not try to kick a higher target.

    I look at this in a similar light as my own training. I don't train high kicks in my training, but it doesn't mean I won't kick someone in the head if the opportunity presents itself.

    Boxers don't train weapons, but that's not going to stop a boxer from taking a knife and trying to stab someone if the opportunity and danger makes that the next best option.

    I think when people get into comments like this, it's because they are thinking about the sport or martial arts instead of martial arts being a fighting system.
     
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  4. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    That's still missing the point.
     
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  5. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    And, as I said, that's just a name. Name is not the same as the system, so changing the name isn't changing the system.
     
  6. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    Adding a lot of flashy kicks is changing the system.
     
  7. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    What was your point with regards to that post?
     
  8. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    Flashy kicks are not a part of functional martial arts. Kicks that are too high open you up for attacks to your standing leg, groin, or sweep. Flashy kicks are not the norm for function because they come with a big risk that is usually not worth the success of landing it.

    Flashy kicks are things that people usually do when they are at a higher fighting skill level than his opponent. Sort of like showboating in boxing. You rarely see fighter do flashy kicks when the fighting skills are almost equal to or lower than their opponent. You can look up TKD vs whoever and what you'll see is all of the flashy stuff gets shutdown.

    The only time I've seen anyone get away with flashy techniques on a consistent basis is when it's Style vs Style. For example, TKD kicks are extremely flashy when it's TKD vs TKD. Boxing is extremely flashy when it's Boxing vs Boxing. Kung fu is really flashy when it's Kung Fu Style A vs Kung Fu Style A. When you have system A vs System B, those flashy techniques are going to be put on lock down.

    I'm even guilty of this. Jow Ga vs Jow Ga. yeah I can be fancy and pull it off. But me vs anything else you'll see how quickly I throw away the fancy stuff. I'll still throw the same techniques, but I won't be fancy with it.

    Small joint manipulations, wrist locks, etc. do work against every one. Here's why. Joint manipulations, wrist locks, are used to destroy the joint. What we often see in Hollywood is not the realistic application of a joint lock.

    Here are some videos of wristlocks that you say don't work. Anyone who isn't double jointed in the wrist or who doesn't have flexible wrist will tell you that Wristlocks work.




    For me personally I rather have a larger joint locked. Smaller joints can give away quickly before you know it. I always like how BJJ people look shock after experiencing a good wrist lock. Kung Fu people just grin and say. "Told you." From my experience, the people who I had an easy time doing a wrist lock on where those who didn't realize what I was trying to do until it was too late. Just like the BJJ guys just let their hand sit there without response. Yeah that's a no no. You always have to be aware of how people are grabbing your hand or positioning your hand. The sooner you realize that the better. Wait too long and you'll fell the pain. It's real
     
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  9. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    Those are sport competitions between submission grapplers who are taught live resistance training. If you don't know BJJ you will get subbed in 15 seconds.
     
  10. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    You will also note that there is no wrestling takedown in those clips, like the freestyle fighting clip I posted, which gives you no time to apply a joint lock standing, and you won't have time on your back either if all you did is TMA.
     
  11. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    Subbed on the ground in seconds, just like the previous guy!


     
  12. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    Show me a Hapkido expert subbing a judoka or bjj guy with a wrist lock and I will eat my shoe.
     
  13. Earl Weiss

    Earl Weiss Senior Master

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    So the Pro MMA Fights that ended with a kick to the head really didn't work?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2020
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  14. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    It does happen but why would you advocate a jumping technique over a grounded one? It doesn't add any power jumping, if anything it it probably detracts power, slows you down, and telegraphs the technique unneccesarily.
     
  15. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    Here's a flying side kick in the UFC right on the button, and it didn't even stun him. All that waste of energy to something that didn't even hurt him.

     
  16. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    That's not what I was talking about. You made a point that it wasn't Hapkido before that because they didn't call it Hapkido. It was the same system, that later evolved to include those kicks.

    As for "flashy", the Hapkido places I saw (had friends who trained in it some years ago) didn't do any flashy kicks. They did kick to the head, but just pretty standard TKD-type kicks - no aerials, and very little with spinning/turning kicks.
     
  17. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    That what you posted reflected a lack of understanding of the principles behind Hapkido.
     
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  18. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    Could it be that you didn't see all of their content?

    The Koreans practise spin kicks all the time
     
  19. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Not really true if you have some other reasonable background in grappling, unless you're comparing an elite BJJ fighter vs average from other arts. I'd give the edge on the ground to BJJ against most other systems, but it's not as lopsided as you claim here if the other system has sound principles and training.

    But that's also shifting from your prior claim that small joint manipulations don't work against BJJ.
     
  20. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    What is it you think TMA doesn't do that BJJ does? And how do you define "TMA" (the term is inherently vague)?123
     

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