Ephedra Debate - Was Re: Creatine, to take or not to take

Discussion in 'Health Tips for the Martial Artist' started by J-kid, Aug 21, 2002.

  1. cassidy

    cassidy Orange Belt

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    I know from PERSONAL EXPERIANCE. ONCE AGAIN PERSONAL EXPERIANCE. That it can be useful if USED CORRECTLY. So people that look like myself or Terry ,which by the way have never used steroids don't know what we are talking about. What the f ever.
    Would you have the nerve to question a master as to whether his way is right because you haven't seen studies. Terry is a master the same a 7th degree in martial arts he is in supplements. Myself close to that. I don't give a rats a$$ what you guys think. I know because I use it reasonably and I win contests of natural bodybuilding events every year. Terry is a nationally ranked natural bodybuilder. Yes he develops supplements. So what he took pro-hormones off of his products because he found them unhealthy,when he took over that department for met-rx. Tell you what as soon as you can show me a doctor who says I am unhealthy. My kidneys are bad ,my liver is bad etc... Or if someone would like to challenge me to some sort of workout whether it be weights or cardio,I am all open . Unti l then the novices in this forum that believe everything they read, will be just that novices. That's like believing what the national enquirer puts out. Better yet we all read black belt magazine and we know they don't print the whole truth and nothing but the truth. So to all the skinny no muscle people and fat no muscle people how could you listen to some fat doctor who supposedly knows everything but can't keep his/her fat *** in shape ,when you could listen to people who work out and compete for a living. Justify it as you want I don't give a rats a$$
     
  2. Bob Hubbard

    Bob Hubbard Retired

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    So you admit to being unable to back up your claims with anything outside of marketing hype, personal attacks and insults?

    You asked if I would ask a master pointed questions on the validity of his art? Yes I would. Why? Because I don't believe every little gym rat who thinks this weeks magic potion is gonna make me the man of steel.

    You are unable to document a SINGLE non-manufacturer source that indicates this crap is safe, yet call us stupid. Gee, for years the tobacco companies said tobacco was safe. Gee, few thousand deaths, some non-vendor RnD, and we now have laws and controls on the drug.

    I've posted facts from numerous sources. You've posted ad copy.

    You've used it safely. I've experienced side effects. Gee, but your musscular experience is somehow worth more than my puny one. You've missed numerous opportunities to maturely and professionally present your case here, relying instead on personal attacks on those who disagree with you.

    What next? If we were having a face to face debate would you kick my *** to prove how right you are? get real.
     
  3. cassidy

    cassidy Orange Belt

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    Kick your *** ? No to easy and a waste of my time but as for never getting gains, I would pick apart your diet and foolish approach to supplements and training. How is a research and development guy from the leading sports supplement company not good enough? Fool
     
  4. Nightingale

    Nightingale Senior Master

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    I ask you to simply show me ONE SINGLE REPUTABLE STUDY, and you ignore my question and challenge my rank. I really should let that speak for itself.

    However, just because you asked SOOOOO nicely:

    I obtained my brown belt from David Brock, who obtained his 6th degree black belt from Bob White, who was promoted under Mr. Parker, and is currently a 9th degree black belt and on the American Kenpo Senior Council.

    I currently train with Michael Grilli, who is a student of Larry Tatum's and was promoted to black belt by Darrin Phillips and Dan Laxson.

    And with regards to my "phisique", as you put it, I'm 17% body fat, which is about midrange for a female athlete. Anything below 14% is considered too low for a woman. However, from that dark photo where about all of me that you could see was my arm, I'm really not sure how you can possibly make an accurate judgement, since the rest of me was wrapped up in an extra heavyweight gi and half obsured by my instructor's fall. In all honesty, your post seemed like a cheap shot to me. You couldn't answer my question, so you chose to attack my rank and my body instead. How much lower can you get?
     
  5. Nightingale

    Nightingale Senior Master

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    and...

    if Terry Giles wrote it, why does your first sentence say YOU wrote it? And then a few posts down, you say you didn't write it. you sound a little confused to me.
     
  6. cassidy

    cassidy Orange Belt

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    Beyond confused terry wrote it look at it more closely it is him speaking not me.
     
  7. Bob Hubbard

    Bob Hubbard Retired

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    Oh, so -YOU- are a "research and development guy from the leading sports supplement company"?

    I didn't ask you to analyze my diet, and the only suppliments I take are ginseng, a multivitamin and occasionally guarana. Nothing too complex. I don't do body building as I prefer to keep my flexability and not have huge veins bugging out all over my body. My trainings my own business, and deals more in flexability than strength or scuplting, so your information would be of little use as I don't wish to compete with Hans or Frans...but you certainly seem pretty 'pumped up' there kid.

    I repeat - You can not maturely debate this subject, falling back to marketing hype and personal attacks. You are unable to answer the simple questions instead claiming it works for you, and that we should all be awed by your great (but not seen) build and claimed championships at bodybuilding. However, just as you attack one of our valued members credentials I will question yours.

    Whats your full name, when did you win them, where did you win them, in which organizations, and please provide links to their records indicating such things. Otherwise, you are yet another anonymous knowitall self-important twit on the net.

    Good day kid.
     
  8. Bob Hubbard

    Bob Hubbard Retired

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    It clearly states:

    So, where is the confusion? Or is the first sentence a typo?
     
  9. cassidy

    cassidy Orange Belt

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    Bodybuilding does not make you loose flexability it has only enhanced my martial arts. Terry is the R&D guy not me. And he to is a martial arts champion so how does it make you loose flexability. Nice try though. By the way not all ginsing is good for you. But I forgot you are a expert so you probably know that.
     
  10. cassidy

    cassidy Orange Belt

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    That first sentence is from the same page you pulled up earlier and said it was a supplement ad who is the fool now? that was cut and pasted here from his add.
     
  11. cassidy

    cassidy Orange Belt

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    Cassidy Mark Drake

    1st place in middleweight division Utah Natural contest 1998.
    I have no I dea what a link would be.

    1st place hawaii state natural bodybuilding championships 2000
    middleweight class. No link.

    They don't post most state contests unless it is new york ,cali, or texas.

    However the contest results and pictures are in the back of FLEX magazine May1998 issue. Research it all you want.
     
  12. Bob Hubbard

    Bob Hubbard Retired

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    The above is verbatum from the page I listed.

    You wrote
    So, again, where is the confusion?


    Again, I never claimed to be an expert...you did.

    As far as the rest goes, its moot.


    Your serve.
     
  13. cassidy

    cassidy Orange Belt

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    Just for those of you who never read this article I wrote on ephedra a while back.....just some food for thought.

    Facts about Ephedra - the FDA and the Future of "Fat Loss"
    By Terry Giles






    exactly the way I pulled off his link dumba$$ where is the confusion? Go to musclemag.com search terry giles got to page 10
    look under is ephedra really that bad. Pulled it just like it is. My hell
     
  14. cassidy

    cassidy Orange Belt

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    By the way nightingale Bob White and Larry tatum both teach
    EPAK so what is the reasoning in going backwards in rank? Also fifteen years in a art supposedly and still no rnak higher than yellow. Could it be because your teacher thought there is no way you were equal to his brown belts?hmmmmm
     
  15. Bob Hubbard

    Bob Hubbard Retired

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    First of all Cassidy, you will stop with the personal shots, now. This is an official warning.

    Secondly, I followed your instructions and got exactly what I posted above. Post the link you used. What page 10? What link? The only search I can find takes you into the e-store. I followed the link from his article on "How Does Creatine Work? " which is on the main page. That took me to the series of pages I posted earlier.

    Thirdly, I can find no information verifying your claims to winning or even participating in anything. If someone else has a copy of that magazine and would verify it, it might help establish you as not being totally full of hot air.

    Fourthly, if you can not debate in a mature fashion, you are not welcome here.

    Its -that- simple.


    You have been asked to provide unbiased proof of your claims. You have not. You continue to spout information that the established body of evidence indicates is harmful. You can not provide a polite rebuttle, falling back to the resource of all who have no defendable argument, personal attack and insult.


    If you can not post here in a non-insulting manner, please leave. Now.

    Good day sir.
     
  16. cassidy

    cassidy Orange Belt

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    Any local library should have a copy of that issue of flex. So she can question me with shots , But I can't question her bull claims?




    o.k.:rofl: :asian:
     
  17. Bob Hubbard

    Bob Hubbard Retired

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    I saw no shots from her aimed at you other than repeatedly asking for information, and 1 clarification. I have however asked the other moderators to look at this thread as they will be coming in fresh.
     
  18. cassidy

    cassidy Orange Belt

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    That's fine I have already spoke to one. It is a dead issue I don't care.
     
  19. Nightingale

    Nightingale Senior Master

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    I chose to remove my brown belt and put on a white belt because I wanted to repeat my belt tests through the new organization. Mr. Brock and Mr. Grilli have very different teaching styles and kenpo philosophies.

    It was my choice to remove my current rank (which I still hold and still compete at) and wear a white belt (in the studio only. at seminars and tournaments I wear my brown belt). My instructor did not ask me to wear a white belt. He told me that I could keep the brown belt. I wanted to take it off. It was my choice, and no one else's.

    However, none of this is really any of your business. My current kenpo rank and who it was received from has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not ephedra is safe, which is the subject at hand. Whether my rank is yellow, brown, purple, black, blue, pink, or chartreuse, and whether I got it from Dave Brock, Mike Grilli, or Mickey Mouse, has nothing to do with my intelligence and ability to analyse data. There have been many scientific studies that have come to a similar conclusion about the safety of ephedra. Should I believe them, and my doctor, or should I believe you, some random person on the internet who can't show one shred of legitimate proof of your claims (if you could prove what you say, you probably would have posted a link to a legitimate study instead of someone's advertisment). I'm not disputing that the stuff works. I'm disputing that it works safely.

    Please refrain from any more personal attacks and rude comments. Lets just have a calm, adult debate.
     
  20. cassidy

    cassidy Orange Belt

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    Very respectable and Ican sort of see your reasoning in the belt thin I have just never seen it done that way. O.K. I'm sorry.123
     

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