Ephedra Debate - Was Re: Creatine, to take or not to take

Discussion in 'Health Tips for the Martial Artist' started by J-kid, Aug 21, 2002.

  1. cassidy

    cassidy Orange Belt

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    . Under the FDC (Food, Drug and Cosmetic) Act, the FDA has regulatory authority over drugs, devices, foods and cosmetics. In 1994 Congress passed the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act (DSHEA) to redefine the FDA's authority in its premarket approval stance. Most drugs and devices, because of their inherent risks, cannot be marketed without FDA premarket approval. Most foods and dietary supplements, because of their inherent safety do not require such premarket approval. Due to the FDA's misuse of authority in the 1980's and early 1990's, Congress passed DSHEA, to reaffirm the original intent of the FDC Act, and as repeatedly recognized by FDA officials, under the FDC Act as revised by DSHEA, dietary supplements are heavily regulated, and the FDA has the regulatory authority and power to assure safety, and accurate, truthful labeling. FDA Commissioner Jane Henney testified in her confirmation hearings and has stated repeatedly that she "believes DSHEA provides FDA with the necessary legal authority to protect the public health". The Federal Trade Commission's authority to require that claims made for dietary supplements be substantiated by valid science further backs this power and authority. So to say that nutritional supplements go unregulated is simply just another misrepresentation of the truth.
     
  2. cassidy

    cassidy Orange Belt

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    With all of this laid out before you, hopefully you have a better understanding of the whole ephedra issue as it relates to rumors, half truths and out and out lies. Scientific data supports ephedrine alkaloids and caffeine in their effects on enhancing and supporting metabolism and thermogenesis, and their role in promoting fat loss. My job has been to formulate to the industry safety standard that has been set forth wherein the total milligram dose of ephedrine alkaloids consumed in a serving be no more than 25 mgs. and that the total daily dose be no more than 100 mgs. To formulate a product that has observed effectiveness and delivers a point of differentiation from other thermogenic products on the market. As research progresses, and I have taken on new tasks and new roles within different companies, the job remains the same - and that is to develop the next generation of fat loss products that really work. To develop products which support the hard work and dedication of the athlete, bodybuilder, and our customers spending their hard earned dollars in search of results. Each time I sit down to work out formulations based on the latest research data and field test information, I am looking for the next "magic bullet", the twist that will make a positive difference. That difference has manifested itself in the current formulation of THERMICORE CRT from the Anabolic Drive Series by METRx. THERMICORE CRT represents state of the art development in the next generation of fat loss - a completely balanced formulation driven by an advanced time release pattern with scientifically engineered support components.
     
  3. cassidy

    cassidy Orange Belt

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    What does the future hold???

    Well given the current onslaught of the media and the negative press surrounding ephedrine and the situation with the NFL banning ephedra - the future is unsure and to be honest undetermined at this point. I have formulated numerous "best selling" thermogenics - which can't be discussed openly as they are protected by confidentiality agreements - but rest assured, with the changing face of regulatory environment and change within the industry in the attitude to ephedrine - all the major players are formulating and creating ephedrine free thermogenic products. Why? - Just in case the FDA pulls ephedrine from the shelves - the industry leaders can protect their finances by having products that work without ephedrine. This however raises some very serious observations and sets some very specific points of interest. First, you must ask yourself are you using ephedrine based products to lose weight (burn fat) or because you want that jolt - that energy burst that comes with using ephedrine. If you are using it for the energy jolt - I have bad news. Myself and probably hundreds of other researchers, scientists and product developers have been "searching" for an ephedrine substitute for years - a product or ingredient tat would deliver the same "bang" as ephedrine - as it relates to energy. Problem is - we all have come up pretty empty handed - some ideas - some possibilities - but nothing concrete - nothing for sure. However, on the other hand - if you are using ephedrine for fat burning - to support your metabolism for weightloss and don't care about getting that added energy jolt - there is huge potential and much progress on that front has been realized. Scientific data and clinical studies have verified we have gotten results in this regard - without ephedrine.
     
  4. cassidy

    cassidy Orange Belt

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    When choosing any ephedrine product or fat burning product - just know why you are selecting it - is it for the fat burning support or just for the energy? Stay with reputable companies that employ cGMP and OTC manufacturing standards - stick with one of the big names - the companies that have the resources and procedures in place for substantial Quality Assurance, Analytical Analysis and Quality Control. Cheaper isn't always better.



    There you go nightingale you don't need ephedra but it isn't dangerous either.............pucker up
     
  5. cassidy

    cassidy Orange Belt

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    A kirk it is that simple.
     
  6. Kirk

    Kirk Guest

    Okay, I want to discuss this with you. Please understand that I
    have been fighting my weight for years upon years, and I'm very
    passionate about this subject.

    I also have a problem with communication. Often, many have felt
    that I've been insulting or rude to them, when it was NOT my
    intention, so PLEASE bear with me.

    Shall we make a new thread to discuss this?
     
  7. cassidy

    cassidy Orange Belt

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    Don't worry I took no offense from you, nothing is wrong at all with what you said. We can discuss it on our PM's if you like.:asian:
     
  8. Kirk

    Kirk Guest

    Well if you're gonna educate me, lets put it out there for others
    to learn from.
     
  9. Bob Hubbard

    Bob Hubbard Retired

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    Can you cite non-manufacturer studies that support this?

    To the best of my knowledge, there is no organization that oversees nutritional suppliments quality or safety.

    Studies on Ginseng for example have found that many of the over the counter packages contained minimal if any actual Ginseng.

    Mens Fitness magazine also on recent looks at supliments had a few things to say:
    Men's Fitness November, 1999
    "While herbs are natural products, it's important to keep in mind that when stimulants such as ephedra (ma huang) are taken to enhance performance, they often function like drugs. "

    Men's Fitness May, 1999
    "Caffeine and ephedra
    These two controversial stimulants are thermogenic on their own but have an even greater effect on fat loss when combined. They are added to several ready-made drinks or pills found in health-food stores, sometimes referred to by their respective herbal names, guarana and ma huang.

    The problem, again, is side effects. Overuse of caffeine and ephedra has been associated with increased heart rate, insomnia, nervousness and even death. "Scientific studies have shown that [the combination] works, but I'm not crazy about the potential for side effects," Kalman says. If you're on antidepressant medication, ephedra is not an option. "

    Men's Fitness February, 2000
    "And if you’re having any trouble sleeping, don’t take fat-burning supplements that contain stimulating substances such as caffeine or ephedra. "


    If it is safe, why has the NFL banned its use?
    http://www.ephedrine-news.com/html/athletes.html

    Why does the Military discourage its use, and have banned sales of ephedra based products on its bases? Certainly if any group out there needed a way to rapidly whip recruits into shape, and give their troops an edge in combat its the military.
    Additional information: The Honolulu Advertiser
    http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2002/Sep/04/ln/ln01a.html
    From Honolulu Star-Bulletin
    http://starbulletin.com/2001/02/09/news/story5.html

    The Military, the NFL and many other sports associations either ban it outright or discourage its use. California has recently passed laws concerning it and other states are expected to follow soon. Study after study not run by those who profit from it continue to find reason for concern.

    Let us be frank here...the average person on the street does not have the discipline to watch their intake or count their calleries. They will simply pop the magic pills and wait to lose weight. They are not professional atheletes, they are not body builders. The average person on the mat doesn't eat 8 meals a day and wash it down with weight-gain 2000. This stuff is dangerous, and should not be readilly available for those who can not or will not use it safely (if that is possible) to obtain.
     
  10. Bob Hubbard

    Bob Hubbard Retired

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    Addendum: You folks were busy while I was writing. heh. Some of my points were addressed a few posts back. Thanks!
     
  11. cassidy

    cassidy Orange Belt

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    Oh don't even start with the military thing. I work special operations for the airforce and what little you know. They quit selling it because people were using it incorrectly. When I went through indoc which is like navy S.E.A.L.S training. We were reguraly given protein shakes ,vitamins, creatine,and glutamine. No use fro ephedra when your in that type of traing. You say misuse or to much of it is dangerous. Yes it is. Duh I mean come on now. You guys wanted scientific fact you got it from a guy with a phd in sports medicine. Wake up.
     
  12. cassidy

    cassidy Orange Belt

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    "it is dangerous and shouldn't be readily available to the general public" so is alchohol,cigs,and cars but you don't see them stopping that .hmmmmmmmm why because it is our free right and if someone drinks they might drive and that is far more dangerous than ephedra. So lets just ban everything that could be dangerous including the famous no touch knockout
     
  13. Bob Hubbard

    Bob Hubbard Retired

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    I don't admit to being an expert. I do however continue to find more and more information on the bad. You have not to my recollection provided a single source other than your own well writen article.

    I personally believe tobacco should be either removed from the market, or taxed at an additional $5/pack to offset the health issues associated with it.

    Alchohol on the other hand, recent studies have shown may be of benefit in moderation.

    Ah, thats the key...moderation.

    We licence drivers, require them to have insurance (which also has an idiot tax built in to allow for uninsurred drivers). Cocaine, PCB, Etc were found to be health hazzards and made illegal. They are now smuggled in and sold illegally. I'm certain that when they took cocaine off the market, folks had similar feelings, since it was used in numerous health tonics for years.

    Protein shakes and metabolism boosters are not the same thing.


    I have pointed to about a dozen non-related articles on the health hazzards of ephedra. Can you provide non-manufacturer or non-vendor links to studies indicating its safety when used responsibly?

    We won't touch the no-touch KO here.
     
  14. cassidy

    cassidy Orange Belt

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    Moderation is the key. Including supplements. The article wasn't written by me it was written by Dr Giles a PHD in sports medicine.
     
  15. cassidy

    cassidy Orange Belt

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    Oh ya and these supps we are talking about with ephedra are metabolism boosters.
     
  16. Bob Hubbard

    Bob Hubbard Retired

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  17. JDenz

    JDenz Guest

    Did you guys see the story about how the air force people are forced to take uppers before long bombing reconensence flights. ephedra Is an awsome supplement it works doesn't mke you go crazy and is cheap leave it alone. The NFL banned it because of Kory Stringer and weather or not that is why he died we will not know for a long time, if we ever do. Thy over reacted because a player died and got suedfor a huge amount of $$$$$$$. All of a sudden it is worse then being on roids or being cought with a trunk full of weed. Or smoking crack rocks. We tend o get things out of perspective. The human body was built not to look like a body builder but to store fat and binge eating. Anytime that you go agianst that, you are goin agianst nature. I say so what. Idon't want to be fat when I am thirty. I want to look good get the girl. I don't drink I don't smoke, F- u people that want to take my pills and powders away. You are just jealous you don't have the largest arms in the world.
     
  18. Nightingale

    Nightingale Senior Master

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    Cassidy-

    its easier to just post a link to an article rather than retype the whole thing... or type it to a document and attach it.

    Everyone else:

    This is the bio of the guy that wrote that article:

    The man is developing these drugs. He has a financial interest in their success. Of course he's going to say they're safe.

    Cassidy,

    Please show me a study or article by a reputable researcher that is not associated with a manufacturing or developing company that deals with these supplements. I want to see unbiased third party research, where the researcher has nothing to gain financially by finding the drugs safe.

    There's so many third party studies out there that say they aren't safe. If they're actually as harmless as you say, surely at least ONE study agrees with you.

    -N-
     
  19. cassidy

    cassidy Orange Belt

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    show me proof that you obtained your brown belt from a legit kenpo school not some not some watered down mcdojo. Same sort of question don't you think. I saw your picture judging from the physique you have no room to pick and peck at what other people eat and take. Or give advice on the matter.
     
  20. Bob Hubbard

    Bob Hubbard Retired

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    Hey Cassidy, why don't you stop with the smart *** comments and personal attacks and answer the damn question?

    I did more research on Mr Giles (since you couldn't be bothered to do so.

    Are you are unable to back up your belief in these drugs usefullness?

    ---------------
    Complete article by Terry Giles
    http://econtent.musclemagazine.com/powerclub/index3.php?topic=FatBurners

    There is a bio link there.
    "Since joining the Royal Numico family of companies he has been tasked with heading up the development of the new Anabolic Drive Series, the evolution of MET-Rx, as well as addressing innovative new protein technologies and scientifically advanced products for the sports nutrition, human performance and active nutrition categories. "

    "His expertise as a product development researcher have given him an edge on innovative product development, target market strategies and advanced nutritional technologies. "

    If I read that right, he is a developer of METRx

    So Cassidys' whole series of posts above is nothing more than ad copy from someone involved in the development of a product mentioned repeatedly in that article. Mr. Giles own homepage (www.terrygiles.com) is little more than a funnel into the marketing of his products. The articles at musclemagazine.com all cross link to his e-store. He's also been involved with CyberGenics. http://www.ifpa-fitness.com/pdf/fall97FitNews.pdf

    Assuming the picture there is Mr. Giles, he's got a hell of a development going on. But he is not an unbiased party. Any unbiased info?

    And Jeff, stick to the Dr. Pepper.....Guys like Billy Graham and Lyle Alzado learned the hard way what roids can do to get those '24" pythons". Roids were once thought to be 'safe' too.


    All that said about Mr Giles objectivity aside, if you can overlook the marketing hype inside his articles, he does in fact provide a very large amount of information.

    Creatine - http://econtent.musclemagazine.com/powerclub/index3.php?topic=Creatine
    Fat Burners - http://www.musclemagazine.com/fsindex.php?topic=FatBurners
    Glutamine - http://econtent.musclemagazine.com/powerclub/index3.php?topic=Glutamine
    Carbohydrates - http://econtent.musclemagazine.com/powerclub/index3.php?topic=Carbohydrates

    He has also writen several other articles for Muscle Magazine, available thru the above links and Planet Muscle (http://www.planetmuscle.com). An article on Weight Training is at http://www.hwarang.org/Weights.html123
     

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