Anyone Know How To Do The Forward Roll?

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by Obito Uchiha, Mar 22, 2017.

  1. Obito Uchiha

    Obito Uchiha White Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2017
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Hidden Leaf Village
    In class, I'm generally have some trouble doing the forward roll, since not too long ago I tried front-flipping on my bed, and nearly sprained my neck (sad, right?), and now I can't even do a roll. So, can someone like, go through it step by step? Thanks!
     
  2. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2008
    Messages:
    6,012
    Likes Received:
    926
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Not without being in front of you and watching you, no. I heartily recommend you discuss this with your instructor... they will have their own way of teaching it, as well as being able to watch and see where you need work.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
    Messages:
    13,946
    Likes Received:
    2,794
    Trophy Points:
    263
    This is the version I like but it is different to a lot of martial arts versions. Having said that if you can do one sort of roll. It will help you get other variations.

     
    • Like Like x 2
  4. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2008
    Messages:
    6,012
    Likes Received:
    926
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    So... you're going to advise a video on a different approach to rolling to the actual system the OP is practicing, that you don't know anything about? And offer that to a 14 year old kid who's a beginner at their art? Who has already injured themselves trying to practice unsupervised? While acknowledging that it's not really the same thing at all? Exactly how helpful do you think this is?

    Look, I'm not saying don't try to help... I am, however, suggesting you look a bit further than your lack of knowledge, take a moment to see who you're talking to, and consider whether or not what you're offering is actually help at all. This, frankly, is not.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  5. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
    Messages:
    13,946
    Likes Received:
    2,794
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Yep. That is exactly what I am advising. And I know about forward rolls.

    The approach in that video is about the best approach for getting a functional roll without crippling yourself like the OP did. Doing it in whatever way he was taught.

    Seriously five year olds can do forward rolls.

    Let me guess you are going to keep with this weird idea that people need to defer to their martial arts instructor for all things. Which you just conveniently happen to be.

    If he wants to do a different version in class. Good on him. But that one on the video will work for the purpose of taking a fall safely.

    I suggest you let go a little of this authority you are desparate to hold on to. Nobody cares.

    And you know what a front flip is?
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
  6. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2008
    Messages:
    6,012
    Likes Received:
    926
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Except it's different in a number of ways to the rolls found in Ninjutsu arts... which also differ slightly depending on the organisation (the Jinenkan rolling methods are different to the Genbukan ones... which are different again to the Bujinkan ones). And it's not a "weird idea" that a martial arts student, asking about how to do thing in their martial art, should defer to their instructor who knows how they want things done there... it is, however, a little weird that you think asking their instructor is weird in and of itself.

    The video you posted, if my students were to show it to me, would have me tell them to ignore much of it. And, as neither of us have seen how the OP is actually doing their rolling, nether of us (or anyone else here) is in any position to think they can advise on particular physical methods. In the end, this is not about any "authority" you feel I think I have... it's about actually knowing the topic and subject, and recognising when another member (you) are offering bad advice... and trying to avoid having the OP take it seriously.
     
  7. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
    Messages:
    13,946
    Likes Received:
    2,794
    Trophy Points:
    263
    It is weird when your advice on everything is defer to your leader. You know the subject but cant break down a forward roll instructional?

    I am in a position to advise on how to do a forward roll. It is not exactly a super secret. Most people gan get a forward roll.

    Once you understand how to do a safe forward roll. You can then apply the principles to any sort of different roll in different arts you want.

    I said the ninja on may be different. That doesn't actually matter. You dont learn one forward roll and have it for life. I started out doing the gymnastics one.



    Then did the parkour one.

    Then did variations on that. like the stupid back of the hand version. Which i can do but dont like.


    No handed dive rolling and so on.

    Varying the roll isnt hard. Getting some sort of roll in the first place is. You need to change the method of teaching so the student gets that. Once he gets that he is sorted.
     
    • Dislike Dislike x 1
  8. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2008
    Messages:
    6,012
    Likes Received:
    926
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Son, the fact is that the way a roll is done has specific reasons, ones that you don't know or understand. Yes, the instructor needs to be the authority that is looked to. No, not all rolls are equal in terms of being applicable. No, the rolls you've given (most especially the gymnastic ones) are not applicable.

    You have a tendency to think that your context is the only "real" one... which leads to you offering opinions where you have no idea what you're talking about. We could look to your posts in the "Looking for an Iaito" thread... or your posts in the "Aikido Hate" thread at the moment... where it's clear you don't have the first clue what Aiki actually is, nor, indeed, how to even spell it... even when everyone else is spelling it correctly. And, frankly, the incredible lack of awareness and familiarity shown by not having a clue about the words themselves, let alone what they mean, shows that nothing you have to say in these areas should be taken as having any credibility whatsoever.

    If you insist on coming into threads and areas on topics you have no clue about, then try to stop arguing with the people who do know what they're talking about. You just look foolish otherwise.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
    Messages:
    13,946
    Likes Received:
    2,794
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Boy. the fact is you so far haven't offered any useful advise. You never do. It is just the leader knows best. Just put it in your sig or something it would be easier.

    Specific reasons that nobody knows or understands? Let me guess I would have to defer to the leader to find out what they are? I mean don't be specific or helpful. Dont explain the specifics or reasons. Just assume you are right and nobody should ever question your authority.

    Not all rolls are equal. From a practical stand point that parkour style roll is the best. It helps you catch the ground a bit better at speed. This will give you a chance to direct your head if your fall angle is a bit off.The others not so much.

    That is not the point. Learning any roll will help you learn the others. And that parkour one is a bit safer for a noob to do.

    See that is a specific reason that doesn't require anyone to defer to any leader whatsoever. This is how you give helpfull relevant advise in a practical sense.

    Whether it is spelled correctly or not.

    If you insist on coming into threads and areas on topics you have no clue about, then try to stop arguing with the people who do know what they're talking about. You just look foolish otherwise.
     
    • Dislike Dislike x 2
  10. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2008
    Messages:
    6,012
    Likes Received:
    926
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    You really don't get it, do you?

    I train the same damn art, kid. I do know what I'm talking about. I know why the instructor is the source that should be addressed, and I have stated why. Your complete ignorance is not any excuse.

    No, it's not. Not for our arts. You have no experience or understanding of that, so I heartily recommend you back out before you look even more like an idiot. Again.

    But not relevant to learning the rolling methods of Ninjutsu. I don't give a damn if you like it, it's not relevant here.

    No, it's not. It's how you betray the fact that you're completely ignorant here, and think that your lack of knowledge is somehow helpful, because you can't see the issues with it.

    Hmm... were you meant to keep that in quotation, or were you thinking that this was some way of throwing my words back at me? I mean... you're in a Ninjutsu thread... so the same criticism is hardly appropriate...
     
    • Like Like x 2
  11. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
    Messages:
    13,946
    Likes Received:
    2,794
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Ok. look when you can get back to anybody on the details of how to do a forward roll. Then we can accept you may have any clue as to how to help OP.

    Untill then we should have discussions about forward rolls by people who can explain how to do forward rolls.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  12. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2008
    Messages:
    6,012
    Likes Received:
    926
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    And when you have the first idea about rolls in Ninjutsu, then we can accept that any advice you offer is in anyway relevant. Until then, we can assume you don't know what you're talking about, and should leave the advice to people who do.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2006
    Messages:
    24,649
    Likes Received:
    3,699
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Location:
    England
    Actually most can't, they have to be taught, either by an adult or they teach among themselves.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. oaktree

    oaktree Master of Arts

    Joined:
    May 19, 2010
    Messages:
    1,680
    Likes Received:
    264
    Trophy Points:
    123
    Location:
    Under an Oaktree
    Whatever advise given would not really help because one have no idea what type of front roll you are doing. The second thing is as Chris says without seeing you roll it's hard to give advise. If I said something general like keep your chin tucked in and keep your self tight and compact it most likely would not help much. If you are having problems rolling you need a teacher to pretty much be next to you showing you, helping you perform the roll. Doing a parkour roll is different than say how done in taijutsu and jujutsu so I also wouldn't advise learning it for the sake of ukemi.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  15. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2015
    Messages:
    5,154
    Likes Received:
    1,427
    Trophy Points:
    263
    that's how we teach the forward roll. Roll from shoulder to hip and not on the spine.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

    • LifeTime Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2009
    Messages:
    13,933
    Likes Received:
    2,960
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Pueblo West, CO
    You two might want to knock off the sniping and insults before someone has to step in and do something really Official.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Brian R. VanCise

    Brian R. VanCise MT Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2004
    Messages:
    27,510
    Likes Received:
    1,414
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    The OP injured himself doing a front flip. More than likely all you need is time to let your sprained neck heal so that it will be relaxed when you are rolling and you will be able to continue. However, I would consult a physician regarding your neck before training again.

    As Chris pointed out the best advice any of us can give you is to get some time with your instructor so that you learn to roll properly in this system. I would not spend time learning rolling techniques from any other system as you may have to unlearn some bad habits. All the videos above have habits that would be bad for someone practicing in one of the Takamatsuden Arts.

    Now, here is the good news! You are in a system that has in my opinion the finest break falls and rolls in the world. I have not found another system that does it as well!
     
    • Like Like x 2
  18. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2015
    Messages:
    5,154
    Likes Received:
    1,427
    Trophy Points:
    263
    I'm willing to bet that the rolls are going to follow the same mechanics. From a body mechanics I'm sure their are universal things that you don't want to do regardless of style be it a martial arts system or acrobatics systems. Hand placement and foot placement may be different just depending on what you are trying to do when you get up to the upright position.
    For example: This would be a universal incorrect way to do a roll


    As well as this one.


    As for front flips, those are things that people have to be fully committed to. If the person bails out and opens up in the middle then they can crash on their neck. I've been there and have done it a couple of times when learning how to do double front flips. The only good news is that the front flip is easier to learn than the double flip.


    I wouldn't recommend learning to do front flips without someone who knows how to spot you. People who know how to spot you will help make sure that you get the rotation that you need or slow your descent if you don't get enough. OP don't be like the guy in video.

    True story OP. as a kid I did a front flip on my parents bed and smashed my mouth on the head of the bed. That day I had to have 2 teeth pulled because it bent my teeth in. Training on the right equipment is everything.
     
  19. Brian R. VanCise

    Brian R. VanCise MT Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2004
    Messages:
    27,510
    Likes Received:
    1,414
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    There are certain mechanics that are going to be good regardless of style. However, some styles do things differently based on that systems methods and needs. The parkour video above is a good example. What he is doing has merit but would teach a Takamatsuden practitioner some bad habits that they would have to unlearn.
     
  20. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
    Messages:
    13,946
    Likes Received:
    2,794
    Trophy Points:
    263
    It is easier to unlearn a roll once you have the confidence to actually roll.

    If you never get that starting concept you will struggle.

    The biggest trick in learning how to do a forward roll is you have to already know how to roll.

    A lot of acro is like that.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2017

Share This Page