6 exercises seniors should avoid doing

[_Simon_]

According to what I've read, the angle of the force matters. At 90 degrees, the joint is under a different kind of stress than at other angles, and that's what the authors were suggesting was at issue.

Yes, this! That's what I was curious about. If doing the turnaround point for squats at that parallel 90° point whether it is indeed more stressful for the knee hmm.... will have to research more

 

[dvcochran]

Arrrrrrgh.... haha... sorry I'm not a fan of that perspective that's been trending everywhere, the whole 'only 100% functional' crowd...

Just because you don't necessarily do an exercise movement EXACTLY in real life it does not mean it's a pointless exercise. Squats are incredibly useful, and build leg strength (whole body strength really) a great deal.

Not all exercise is purely to translate exactly into an exact functional movement, any exercise that builds a bit of strength to me has 'functionality'.

I've even heard people say "Don't do bicep curls as there's never ever a time in real life when you do that exact movement." Try moving a pool table into a house! Bicep strength is paramount in that! You're not even doing the curl motion, but isometrically contracting hard.

And functionality is not the only reason people train either. You can build muscle mass with exercises that may not translate to ANY real world skill, but... you've built muscle mass which is good stuff.

Strength does indeed carry over into other activities.

Rant over!

Agree. We are built with articulating joints for various reasons. The problem for most people is the Loss in range of motion in their joints over time.
I would Love to be able to set in a full squat the way I used to. Many service panels and junction boxes are mounted 18" off the floor and I used to easily be able to squat down and work in one of these panels for as long as I needed to.
I surely miss the ROM in my knees. The rest of my joints are doing ok for the most part.
My right elbow has not fully straightened out for a few hears, I have no idea why but it does cause me any issues.

 

[_Simon_]

how will it help ? if your doing dead lifts it wont help, if your not doing dead lifts it wont help as your back wont be strong enough, so no help at all

Plantar flexion, knee extension, hip extension, spinal erectae isometric stabilising... strengthening those functions will of course help. You don't have to be trainimg the exact movement, there is a carry on effect. And like Gerry said, he didn't say it was the absolute best exercise for that, but it would absolutely help.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Yeah they feel fine! My knees make cracking noises but not painful. There was the odd time when it was painful but they feel okay with that.

My knees rarely actually hurt they just...twinge. I've never figured out how to describe it, but they have a sudden weak feeling, mostly on the way down and more pronouced with some weight added. The lifting portion of a squat I can do significantly more weight than the lowering portion. So much so, that what I can leg-press with one leg, I have to use both legs to lower, or risk the muscles just quitting when the knees twinge.

And that twinge happens just shy of that 90 degree point, and goes away shortly after I pass 90 degrees. So a full-range squat actually feels better to me than one stopping at 90 degrees.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Yes, this! That's what I was curious about. If doing the turnaround point for squats at that parallel 90° point whether it is indeed more stressful for the knee hmm.... will have to research more

If you find something, please let me know. I haven't found any notes (probably didn't take any), and haven't yet located the original article.

 

[_Simon_]

Agree. We are built with articulating joints for various reasons. The problem for most people is the Loss in range of motion in their joints over time.
I would Love to be able to set in a full squat the way I used to. Many service panels and junction boxes are mounted 18" off the floor and I used to easily be able to squat down and work in one of these panels for as long as I needed to.
I surely miss the ROM in my knees. The rest of my joints are doing ok for the most part.
My right elbow has not fully straightened out for a few hears, I have no idea why but it does cause me any issues.

Yes definitely... loss of ROM can be worked with, and I've seen some amazing transformations of people regain so much more movement and range. But obviously depends on whether structurally it is still possible too (after operations sometimes things are just not in the same position, or other things are in the way).

 

[_Simon_]

My knees rarely actually hurt they just...twinge. I've never figured out how to describe it, but they have a sudden weak feeling, mostly on the way down and more pronouced with some weight added. The lifting portion of a squat I can do significantly more weight than the lowering portion. So much so, that what I can leg-press with one leg, I have to use both legs to lower, or risk the muscles just quitting when the knees twinge.

And that twinge happens just shy of that 90 degree point, and goes away shortly after I pass 90 degrees. So a full-range squat actually feels better to me than one stopping at 90 degrees.

Ah that is interesting... yeah must be something at that point in the movement that things struggle to support that loaded position..

I might try switching to full range BB squats but significantly lighter weights/higher reps. I was so excited to finally be using a bit heavier loads... but may have to ease off a bit. Will maybe try build up to that in a full range and see what happens...

 

[jobo]

So, what were you assuming I was calling heavy earlier?

i wasn't assuming anything i concluded that if you said heavy you meant heavy, and that would be towards the top end of human strength abilities to fit that definition

if you didn't mean heavy you should have used a different word, its not my job to second guess you

 

[jobo]

Arrrrrrgh.... haha... sorry I'm not a fan of that perspective that's been trending everywhere, the whole 'only 100% functional' crowd...

Just because you don't necessarily do an exercise movement EXACTLY in real life it does not mean it's a pointless exercise. Squats are incredibly useful, and build leg strength (whole body strength really) a great deal.

Not all exercise is purely to translate exactly into an exact functional movement, any exercise that builds a bit of strength to me has 'functionality'.

I've even heard people say "Don't do bicep curls as there's never ever a time in real life when you do that exact movement." Try moving a pool table into a house! Bicep strength is paramount in that! You're not even doing the curl motion, but isometrically contracting hard.

And functionality is not the only reason people train either. You can build muscle mass with exercises that may not translate to ANY real world skill, but... you've built muscle mass which is good stuff.

Strength does indeed carry over into other activities.

Rant over!

well clearly squats are not whole body exercises, they wont help your biceps carry a pool table for a start


there is indeed a huge difference between gym strength and real world strength, much of the improvements you get in lifting gym weights come from you getting more efficient at a strict movement pattern, strength that doesn't translate effectively if you change the movement pattern significantly




ive seen this many many times with gym rats that are as week as kittens if you put them outside of their zone, push a 700lbs motorbike up a one in three hill, NO

put a 200 lbs rsj on one shoulder and climb a ladder NO

carry a pool table backwards up 4 flights of stairs NO

 

[Gerry Seymour]

i wasn't assuming anything i concluded that if you said heavy you meant heavy, and that would be towards the top end of human strength abilities to fit that definition

if you didn't mean heavy you should have used a different word, its not my job to second guess you

"Heavy" is a relative term, not an absolute one. A heavy book need not be 400 lbs. A heavy mat is about 100 lbs. to me. And general advice about lifting heavy objects (guarding the back, etc.) isn't restricted to what one can barely lift. Lifting 40 lbs. improperly can lead to injury.

Now, show me where "towards the top end of human strength abilities" is similar to a generally accepted definition. Most definitions center around "difficult", which is also a relative term. So, no, it's not so cut-and-dried as you are trying to make it. You're doing what you always do in situations where you make a claim you can't support: you're now trying to argue that the post you addressed used a word improperly, because you don't like the common usage.

I'm done. Go argue with yourself.

 

[_Simon_]

well clearly squats are not whole body exercises, they wont help your biceps carry a pool table for a start


there is indeed a huge difference between gym strength and real world strength, much of the improvements you get in lifting gym weights come from you getting more efficient at a strict movement pattern, strength that doesn't translate effectively if you change the movement pattern significantly




ive seen this many many times with gym rats that are as week as kittens if you put them outside of their zone, push a 700lbs motorbike up a one in three hill, NO

put a 200 lbs rsj on one shoulder and climb a ladder NO

carry a pool table backwards up 4 flights of stairs NO

Squats stress the whole body. It doesn't efficiently work every muscle group of course, but compared to leg press it has a much bigger effect on the whole system.

I've seen that too. I have. Again, increasing strength doesn't guarantee that someone can 100% complete a specific task that they've never ever done before. Not saying that. But I reckon their training would have surely still helped them in those tasks, compared to if they hadn't done an ounce of training at all.

I remember I'd worked up to heavy deadlifts and curls for me, and we did have to carry a pool table, which was truly the heaviest thing I'd ever experienced... we got it off the truck and into the house, but it was a darn struggle and we all had to take a break. I definitely feel my training would have helped, but it didn't guarantee a perfect execution of a task I'd never done. But the transfer was clear.

In order to do a task more efficiently, of course it's better to train the movement. But it doesn't mean other resistance training will not help. That's all I'm saying.

 

[jobo]

"Heavy" is a relative term, not an absolute one. A heavy book need not be 400 lbs. A heavy mat is about 100 lbs. to me. And general advice about lifting heavy objects (guarding the back, etc.) isn't restricted to what one can barely lift. Lifting 40 lbs. improperly can lead to injury.

Now, show me where "towards the top end of human strength abilities" is similar to a generally accepted definition. Most definitions center around "difficult", which is also a relative term. So, no, it's not so cut-and-dried as you are trying to make it. You're doing what you always do in situations where you make a claim you can't support: you're now trying to argue that the post you addressed used a word improperly, because you don't like the common usage.

I'm done. Go argue with yourself.

well context is everything, if your claiming squatting helps lift a heavy book, then your possibly correct or course there are book that weigh 100 s of pounds, in fact there are books that weigh thousands of lbs ????

are books that weigh say 30 lbs heavy, well clearly not if we are accepting your relative explanations

common usage of heavy in the context of lifting things, is something that is at the top end of your lifting? carrying ability, things which are out side of your capabilities are called ''to heavy''

 

[jobo]

Squats stress the whole body. It doesn't efficiently work every muscle group of course, but compared to leg press it has a much bigger effect on the whole system.

I've seen that too. I have. Again, increasing strength doesn't guarantee that someone can 100% complete a specific task that they've never ever done before. Not saying that. But I reckon their training would have surely still helped them in those tasks, compared to if they hadn't done an ounce of training at all.

I remember I'd worked up to heavy deadlifts and curls for me, and we did have to carry a pool table, which was truly the heaviest thing I'd ever experienced... we got it off the truck and into the house, but it was a darn struggle and we all had to take a break. I definitely feel my training would have helped, but it didn't guarantee a perfect execution of a task I'd never done. But the transfer was clear.

In order to do a task more efficiently, of course it's better to train the movement. But it doesn't mean other resistance training will not help. That's all I'm saying.

but if they cant do the task, no matter what that task is, then it clearly hasn't helped them, has it ? there is no prize for getting the rsj half way up the ladder and then dropping it


if you cant move a pool table with out having a rest, then it may have helped, but no where near as much as an exercise that more closely resembled the one being undertaken, so you could do it with out undue stress and carrying thing in particularly is complexly out side of the zone of merely lifting things, you need to practice prolong contraction, of the muscle tied with ambulance, other wise know as carrying things


and clearly, back to the actual discussion, there is no way a full depth squat would have given you an advantage in moving your pool table over a parallel squat, you remember that my point wasn't that squats are pointless, just that *** to grass squats were pointless, unless you find yourself in a most unusual set of circumstances

 

[_Simon_]

but if they cant do the task, no matter what that task is, then it clearly hasn't helped them, has it ?

....... well if it's a black/white pass/fail sort of thing then..... yeah.......... ? That's not what we're talking about...

if you cant move a pool table with out having a rest, then it may have helped, but no where near as much as an exercise that more closely resembled the one being undertaken, so you could do it with out undue stress

We've established that already... again not what we're talking about... I'm saying strength training has a transfer effect, and is very helpful for overall muscular strength and performance benefits. Transferable. It is not 100% black and white an absolute to absolutely without a shadow of a doubt able to 100% without a doubt allow one to absolutely 100% complete the task. Not.... what the discussion was.......

You seemed to say earlier that resistance training has zero benefits ("pointless") as it's not training the exact movement. You yourself, with the knowledge of resistance training you have, know that's not true... of course training the movement pattern is more transferable and beneficial to the task.

and clearly, back to the actual discussion, there is no way a full depth squat would have given you an advantage in moving your pool table over a parallel squat, you remember that my point wasn't that squats are pointless, just that *** to grass squats were pointless, unless you find yourself in a most unusual set of circumstances

...you don't think there are strength benefits from ATG squats?? Again, you're confusing a perfect task achievement with benefits and carryover effects... there's a difference. They're both related of course, but I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss... but your call whatevs!

 

[jobo]

....... well if it's a black/white pass/fail sort of thing then..... yeah.......... ? That's not what we're talking about...



We've established that already... again not what we're talking about... I'm saying strength training has a transfer effect, and is very helpful for overall muscular strength and performance benefits. Transferable. It is not 100% black and white an absolute to absolutely without a shadow of a doubt able to 100% without a doubt allow one to absolutely 100% complete the task. Not.... what the discussion was.......

You seemed to say earlier that resistance training has zero benefits ("pointless") as it's not training the exact movement. You yourself, with the knowledge of resistance training you have, know that's not true... of course training the movement pattern is more transferable and beneficial to the task.



...you don't think there are strength benefits from ATG squats?? Again, you're confusing a perfect task achievement with benefits and carryover effects... there's a difference. They're both related of course, but I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss... but your call whatevs!

well yes real world tends to be black and white, you can either carry your panic buy shopping home or you cant. there are very few situation where only particial completion is a benefit

there are huge variation in the strength curve in doing say an ATG squat, you are considerably stronger above parallel than you are below, to the weight you can lift isnt stressing the muscles in the high range even more that people gain momentum in the lower part and power through the top half, so not only are you building stengh through a movement you will seldom if ever use, your neglecting to properly load the section of movement that will come in handy

so its worse than pointless, its counter productive

yes if you want the best transference of exercise to real world applicability you need to find movements that mimic real world issues, saying they help, but dont manage to complete the task is answering the question very clearly, they didnt help enough

if you want to be able to carry heavy things there is no exercise better than carrying heavy things for the duration you may need to carry them and squatting will have very little effect on your ability to do that and ATG squatting even less

 

[_Simon_]

well yes real world tends to be black and white, you can either carry your panic buy shopping home or you cant. there are very few situation where only particial completion is a benefit

there are huge variation in the strength curve in doing say an ATG squat, you are considerably stronger above parallel than you are below, to the weight you can lift isnt stressing the muscles in the high range even more that people gain momentum in the lower part and power through the top half, so not only are you building stengh through a movement you will seldom if ever use, your neglecting to properly load the section of movement that will come in handy

so its worse than pointless, its counter productive

yes if you want the best transference of exercise to real world applicability you need to find movements that mimic real world issues, saying they help, but dont manage to complete the task is answering the question very clearly, they didnt help enough

if you want to be able to carry heavy things there is no exercise better than carrying heavy things for the duration you may need to carry them and squatting will have very little effect on your ability to do that and ATG squatting even less

 

[dvcochran]

well yes real world tends to be black and white, you can either carry your panic buy shopping home or you cant. there are very few situation where only particial completion is a benefit

there are huge variation in the strength curve in doing say an ATG squat, you are considerably stronger above parallel than you are below, to the weight you can lift isnt stressing the muscles in the high range even more that people gain momentum in the lower part and power through the top half, so not only are you building stengh through a movement you will seldom if ever use, your neglecting to properly load the section of movement that will come in handy

so its worse than pointless, its counter productive

yes if you want the best transference of exercise to real world applicability you need to find movements that mimic real world issues, saying they help, but dont manage to complete the task is answering the question very clearly, they didnt help enough

if you want to be able to carry heavy things there is no exercise better than carrying heavy things for the duration you may need to carry them and squatting will have very little effect on your ability to do that and ATG squatting even less

I agree that most people can handle more weight if the are not bending their knees at/near horizontal. However there is great value in going past horizontal Safely. Not going past horizontal is just building body builder muscles. IMHO, a person should not load more weight than they can lift when going past horizontal.

 

[jobo]

I agree that most people can handle more weight if the are not bending their knees at/near horizontal. However there is great value in going past horizontal Safely. Not going past horizontal is just building body builder muscles. IMHO, a person should not load more weight than they can lift when going past horizontal.

and that guy will have bad knees when he is 50, ive yet to meet a middle aged weight lifter who hasn't. how do I know they have bad knees ? they all have their knees strapped up at the gym and walk funny when they are not

but your wrong on the main point, if your not top loading the upper movement more than the lower your not stressing the muscles in the top half near enough, going right down is a body builders exercise, as they need to hit the full muscle for that pumped look

have a look at the photo and tell me what real world loading that position is recreating, maybe if your holding the roof up in a very low tunnel ?

 

[dvcochran]

and that guy will have bad knees when he is 50, ive yet to meet a middle aged weight lifter who hasn't. how do I know they have bad knees ? they all have their knees strapped up at the gym and walk funny when they are not

but your wrong on the main point, if your not top loading the upper movement more than the lower your not stressing the muscles in the top half near enough, going right down is a body builders exercise, as they need to hit the full muscle for that pumped look

have a look at the photo and tell me what real world loading that position is recreating, maybe if your holding the roof up in a very low tunnel ?

I agree the picture is extreme. Everyone's point is maintaining the ability to have/use this range of motion with ease and no pain. Something I sorely miss. I use to work in a full squat often and it was more than comfortable.
So yes, a person should exercise at full range some of the time to maintain their ROM.
Like all of us, I am certain there are things that were much easier for you when you were younger. Think about it.