6 exercises seniors should avoid doing

[jobo]

I am not trying to diverge, but shouldn't exercises with little to no weight be performed with full range?

for what reason, its a genuine question, if you want to have full range of movement in your body its very helpful to move it through full range every so often. if your building muscle you need full range to work the full muscle, but if your concerned with strength, out side the gym, then contrived positions that are unlikely to ever be replicated in the real world are a waist of time and effort
so unweighted squats id view as a beneficial mobility exercise, weighted full range as both potential damaging and pointless and lightly weight as somewhere in the middle depending on what light means, its not going to improve your mobility better than unweighted and it wont make you as strong as a heavier weight in the range of movement that is actually useful, so why are you doing them ?

 

[frank raud]

[QUOTE="jobo, post: 1994122, member: 36477"

ive noted before that the % of middle aged people and those a fair bit younger, on here , with hip and knee problems seem disproportionately higher than the population at large, there may be a reason for that ? ( horse stance )[/QUOTE]

I've commented before that you can often tell what sport or activity someone did ( or does) by the way they walk. Being in Canada, I'm surrounded by hockey players, who have a unique gait from skating. Many judoka have hip and knee problems caused by long term explosive lifting for throws and twisting of limbs. My old jiu jitsu club shared space with a Shotokan club, lots of their guys wore ankle braces from working out on cement or hardwood floors. When I go to multi art seminars, looking at how someone walks or gets up from the floor can tell me as much about the art they study as their uniform.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

the only load on the knee i that being placed there by your muscles, there for the greater the excursion the greater the load on the joint

you can feel a much greater load there just by doing it

According to what I've read, the angle of the force matters. At 90 degrees, the joint is under a different kind of stress than at other angles, and that's what the authors were suggesting was at issue.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

and full range is untimely a pointless exercise, your building strength in a movement range that will only ever be useful for doing full range squats

Or lifting heavy stuff from the floor.

 

[jobo]

Or lifting heavy stuff from the floor.

thats what dead lifts are for ??? if you want to be able to pick heavy stuff of the floor, practice lifting heavy stuff of the floor there massively different loading on the lower back

 

[dvcochran]

According to what I've read, the angle of the force matters. At 90 degrees, the joint is under a different kind of stress than at other angles, and that's what the authors were suggesting was at issue.

Interesting. Do you remember what it said regarding the differences in stress?
One thing I have learned with my knee issues is that the knee is built/formed such that the joint itself actually get stronger as it bends (physical structure). There are more surfaces in contact to distribute the load. Of course this means there is more surface to wear down as well. This is a point of emphasis when a person has muscle/ligature/cartilage issues because it improperly balances the load, concentrating it on a wrong or specific area, potentially causing wear.

It is amazing how big a factor muscle tone/conditioning plays. So much so that it is used to augment to loss of ligaments in an knee replacements. There are different types and the most common type sacrifices 3 ligaments which is hard for me to wrap my head around. I discussed this with my Ortho and he first said this is what he was planning with me because it is the easiest for the surgeon. After much discussion (some heated) he agreed we would be doing the more 'sport' oriented style where only one ligament is affected. After the hardware is drilled/glued in place, the ligament will be graphed back together. But the doctor said it would never be as strong. The downside to this style procedure is pain after surgery. Because new padding (cartilage) is installed, the spacing between upper/lower leg is increased, forcing the ligaments to stretch to the new length. This is supposedly very painful. We will see.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

thats what dead lifts are for ??? if you want to be able to pick heavy stuff of the floor, practice lifting heavy stuff of the floor there massively different loading on the lower back

I didn't say it was the best exercise for it, simply that it would help. The low squat leg movement is similar (though not quite the same) to lifting something from the floor.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Interesting. Do you remember what it said regarding the differences in stress?
One thing I have learned with my knee issues is that the knee is built/formed such that the joint itself actually get stronger as it bends (physical structure). There are more surfaces in contact to distribute the load. Of course this means there is more surface to wear down as well. This is a point of emphasis when a person has muscle/ligature/cartilage issues because it improperly balances the load, concentrating it on a wrong or specific area, potentially causing wear.

It is amazing how big a factor muscle tone/conditioning plays. So much so that it is used to augment to loss of ligaments in an knee replacements. There are different types and the most common type sacrifices 3 ligaments which is hard for me to wrap my head around. I discussed this with my Ortho and he first said this is what he was planning with me because it is the easiest for the surgeon. After much discussion (some heated) he agreed we would be doing the more 'sport' oriented style where only one ligament is affected. After the hardware is drilled/glued in place, the ligament will be graphed back together. But the doctor said it would never be as strong. The downside to this style procedure is pain after surgery. Because new padding (cartilage) is installed, the spacing between upper/lower leg is increased, forcing the ligaments to stretch to the new length. This is supposedly very painful. We will see.

I don't recall the explanation of the stress differences. I'll see if I can find any notes (I might have taken some) or can find the same article again.

 

[jobo]

I didn't say it was the best exercise for it, simply that it would help. The low squat leg movement is similar (though not quite the same) to lifting something from the floor.

how will it help ? if your doing dead lifts it wont help, if your not doing dead lifts it wont help as your back wont be strong enough, so no help at all

 

[elder999]

I was surprised to find out this information online. Do you think this information is correct? Your thought?

• Deadlifts (free weight).
• Long Runs.
• Leg Presses.
• Crunches (sit up)
• Stair Climbs. ...
• Squats (horse stand).

Source?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

how will it help ? if your doing dead lifts it wont help, if your not doing dead lifts it wont help as your back wont be strong enough, so no help at all

So, people who don't do deadlifts are incapable of lifting anything heavy? That's a pretty strong claim.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Source?

6 Exercises Seniors Should Avoid

 

[jobo]

So, people who don't do deadlifts are incapable of lifting anything heavy? That's a pretty strong claim.

depends what your calling HEAVY, if you cant dead 400 lbs it seems unlikely you can lift a 400lb bag of potatoes

 

[Tez3]

6 Exercises Seniors Should Avoid

Your source is a commercial company for old peoples homes? It's in their interest not to have their 'seniors' too active.

John Starbrook: Oldest Virgin Money London Marathon 2018 runner | News | Age UK

 

[Buka]

[QUOTE="jobo, post: 1994122, member: 36477"

ive noted before that the % of middle aged people and those a fair bit younger, on here , with hip and knee problems seem disproportionately higher than the population at large, there may be a reason for that ? ( horse stance )

I've commented before that you can often tell what sport or activity someone did ( or does) by the way they walk. Being in Canada, I'm surrounded by hockey players, who have a unique gait from skating. Many judoka have hip and knee problems caused by long term explosive lifting for throws and twisting of limbs. My old jiu jitsu club shared space with a Shotokan club, lots of their guys wore ankle braces from working out on cement or hardwood floors. When I go to multi art seminars, looking at how someone walks or gets up from the floor can tell me as much about the art they study as their uniform.[/QUOTE]

I can always tell a hell kicker by the way he walks.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

depends what your calling HEAVY, if you cant dead 400 lbs it seems unlikely you can lift a 400lb bag of potatoes

So, what were you assuming I was calling heavy earlier?

 

[_Simon_]

NO, its less damaging than going lower, but there is only damage in both cases if you over load the bar, , its quit certain that preexisting injuries are more inflamed by full range of movement, which is evident to yourself and why you dont do them

and yes, unless its a genetic abnormality , joint injury in non contact exercise is always a product of poor technique and over load, or with chronic injuries that you just wear them out by over use, which is still over load

ive noted before that the % of middle aged people and those a fair bit younger, on here , with hip and knee problems seem disproportionately higher than the population at large, there may be a reason for that ? ( horse stance )

Not a fan of horse stance ay ;D.

Nah I didn't say I was injured from doing full range squats. I avoided heavy full range squats due to my pelvic issues, the very bottom position of the squats the pelvic muscles are lengthened, and under that load are very vulnerable with my condition. So I went box squats to avoid that lower range.

But my knees have been playing up over time and moreso ever since I started trying to progress in weight for box squats. Whether that's the cause I have no idea but it's possible.

 

[_Simon_]

How do full range, no weight squats feel?

Yeah they feel fine! My knees make cracking noises but not painful. There was the odd time when it was painful but they feel okay with that.

 

[_Simon_]

and full range is untimely a pointless exercise, your building strength in a movement range that will only ever be useful for doing full range squats

Arrrrrrgh.... haha... sorry I'm not a fan of that perspective that's been trending everywhere, the whole 'only 100% functional' crowd...

Just because you don't necessarily do an exercise movement EXACTLY in real life it does not mean it's a pointless exercise. Squats are incredibly useful, and build leg strength (whole body strength really) a great deal.

Not all exercise is purely to translate exactly into an exact functional movement, any exercise that builds a bit of strength to me has 'functionality'.

I've even heard people say "Don't do bicep curls as there's never ever a time in real life when you do that exact movement." Try moving a pool table into a house! Bicep strength is paramount in that! You're not even doing the curl motion, but isometrically contracting hard.

And functionality is not the only reason people train either. You can build muscle mass with exercises that may not translate to ANY real world skill, but... you've built muscle mass which is good stuff.

Strength does indeed carry over into other activities.

Rant over!

 

[_Simon_]

I've commented before that you can often tell what sport or activity someone did ( or does) by the way they walk. Being in Canada, I'm surrounded by hockey players, who have a unique gait from skating. Many judoka have hip and knee problems caused by long term explosive lifting for throws and twisting of limbs. My old jiu jitsu club shared space with a Shotokan club, lots of their guys wore ankle braces from working out on cement or hardwood floors. When I go to multi art seminars, looking at how someone walks or gets up from the floor can tell me as much about the art they study as their uniform.

Haha that's an interesting observation!

I was on a yoga retreat recently, and one lady asked me, "are you a martial artist?" And I said yes... but how could she possibly know that?? And she said it was just my posture, body structure, the way I walk and carry myself. I was blown away haha, thought that was really perceptive of her!