6 exercises seniors should avoid doing

[dvcochran]

A couple of bits to add to/adjust on this.

I've read that the repetitive motion of crunches is bad for the back over time. I've also read that stopping squats at horizontal keeps the knees at their highest stress point duing the hardest part of the squat: the reversing of direction.

There is some physics that would argue that point but I was told the benefits of reducing elongation is better on the joint.
I do know my knees first began hurting in deeper bends when I was in my late 30’s, earth 40’s.

 

[jobo]

What is a leg press without a machine? I'm having trouble figuring out what the non-machine analog is.

??? a leg press with out a machine is straightening your leg with out a machine, ussially against a resistance ( thats the press part) that isnt a machine ???

there dozens perhaps hundred of ways to do that

 

[jobo]

There is some physics that would argue that point but I was told the benefits of reducing elongation is better on the joint.
I do know my knees first began hurting in deeper bends when I was in my late 30’s, earth 40’s.

may be, the release portion is harder on the muscles and the joints, if you spend less time going down its easier all round and the deeper you are the more mechanic advantage is against you

 

[dvcochran]

A couple of bits to add to/adjust on this.

I've read that the repetitive motion of crunches is bad for the back over time. I've also read that stopping squats at horizontal keeps the knees at their highest stress point duing the hardest part of the squat: the reversing of direction.

I had to think about this one. If you are leaning your upper body in an appropriate amount of counterbalance this would seem to offset the full fulcrum effect of the right angle.
I imagine most people who go past 90 begin to straighten their back which would load the knees harder on the upstroke.
Picture an overhead squat (powerlift?). They always looked incredibly painful to me.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

??? a leg press with out a machine is straightening your leg with out a machine, ussially against a resistance ( thats the press part) that isnt a machine ???

there dozens perhaps hundred of ways to do that

I was trying to figure out how it's not a squat. I can't think of any standing variation of that that I haven't seen labeled a squat. Just a terminology difference.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I had to think about this one. If you are leaning your upper body in an appropriate amount of counterbalance this would seem to offset the full fulcrum effect of the right angle.
I imagine most people who go past 90 begin to straighten their back which would load the knees harder on the upstroke.
Picture an overhead squat (powerlift?). They always looked incredibly painful to me.

Could be. I need to go back and look at recent research again.

 

[jobo]

I was trying to figure out how it's not a squat. I can't think of any standing variation of that that I haven't seen labeled a squat. Just a terminology difference.

well leg press machines arnt a standing exercise so why insist that any other leg press exercise has to be standing ???


but if you want some standing variations

try climbing stairs with out a push from your standing foot , adjust the step up height accordingly,( it becomes near impossible at about 18'). put a rope round a tree or post or fence and push backwards with your leg whilst pulling with your uper body, stand inside a door frame with your legs bent and your arms locked out against the top ogt he frame, straighten legs ( does arms shoulder and back as well) get a very heavy log, cart or person, push them or just push a car with your back against the car and of course there is hopping

 

[Gerry Seymour]

well leg press machines arnt a standing exercise so why insist that any other leg press exercise has to be standing ???

It was described as a standing leg press. Why are you being argumentative about a question I asked? I was just looking for information.

but if you want some standing variations

try climbing stairs with out a push from your standing foot , adjust the step up height accordingly,( it becomes near impossible at about 18'). put a rope round a tree or post or fence and push backwards with your leg whilst pulling with your uper body, stand inside a door frame with your legs bent and your arms locked out against the top ogt he frame, straighten legs ( does arms shoulder and back as well) get a very heavy log, cart or person, push them or just push a car with your back against the car and of course there is hopping

I wasn't looking for standing variations. I was looking for a definition of a term I hadn't heard, to match it with a specific exercise. I agree all of these exercise approximately the same muscle group.

 

[_Simon_]

I've also read that stopping squats at horizontal keeps the knees at their highest stress point duing the hardest part of the squat: the reversing of direction.

I've read this too but am still curious... I've been doing BB box squats to alleviate the stress on my knees (puts it more on hips/glutes), and also to not go too deep a squat due to my pelvic issues. But it still means the thighs go to parallel, BUT because it's more of a bigger hinge at the hips I'd think the load is more dispersed in the glutes.

BUT that being said as I've been able to finally go heavier with them, my knees have been hurting alot, so I don't know.

I might give full range squats a try but with lighter weight on the BB.

 

[jobo]

I've read this too but am still curious... I've been doing BB box squats to alleviate the stress on my knees (puts it more on hips/glutes), and also to not go too deep a squat due to my pelvic issues. But it still means the thighs go to parallel, BUT because it's more of a bigger hinge at the hips I'd think the load is more dispersed in the glutes.

BUT that being said as I've been able to finally go heavier with them, my knees have been hurting alot, so I don't know.

I ght give full range squats a try but with lighter weight on the BB.

?? as your leg is a fixed length the hinge is a fixed length ???

coming from low is massively harder on the muscles and so much greater forces are going through the knee and hip

 

[_Simon_]

?? as your leg is a fixed length the hinge is a fixed length ???

coming from low is massively harder on the muscles and so much greater forces are going through the knee and hip

Hehe sorry I should have worded that differently, of course it isn't a larger hinge, but it's a more hip dominant exercise (emphasising hip hinge as opposed to knee flexion/extension), because you're focusing on sitting BACK on the box.

Am sure there are greater forces going through the muscles etc, but I think what gpseymour was saying is that stopping the squat AT parallel is stopping and reversing (doing the concentric) the movement at a place where the stress on the knee joint itself is greatest.

Whereas doing full ROM doesn't emphasise too much time (or turnaround from eccentric to concentric) at the high stress point of the exercise.

Massively harder on the muscle doesn't mean it's harder on the joints, but that the load is not being predominantly supported by the joint but the muscles (which is what you always to want).

Don't know if I explained that right. I'm still unsure about the parallel thing, have read too many competing thoughts on it..

 

[jobo]

Hehe sorry I should have worded that differently, of course it isn't a larger hinge, but it's a more hip dominant exercise (emphasising hip hinge as opposed to knee flexion/extension), because you're focusing on sitting BACK on the box.

Am sure there are greater forces going through the muscles etc, but I think what gpseymour was saying is that stopping the squat AT parallel is stopping and reversing (doing the concentric) the movement at a place where the stress on the knee joint itself is greatest.

Whereas doing full ROM doesn't emphasise too much time (or turnaround from eccentric to concentric) at the high stress point of the exercise.

Massively harder on the muscle doesn't mean it's harder on the joints, but that the load is not being predominantly supported by the joint but the muscles (which is what you always to want).

Don't know if I explained that right. I'm still unsure about the parallel thing, have read too many competing thoughts on it..

the only load on the knee i that being placed there by your muscles, there for the greater the excursion the greater the load on the joint

you can feel a much greater load there just by doing it

 

[_Simon_]

the only load on the knee i that being placed there by your muscles,
there for the greater the excursion the greater the load on the joint

you can feel a much greater load there just by doing it

So joints can't take on work? Joints take on force when the leverage/positioning isn't right, so the muscles can't support it (as much) in that particular position.

If that wasn't the case, then technically no one should ever get joint injuries doing any exercise, ever.

What I'm wondering is if you pause and turnaround a movement at a point in which there is greater stress more proportionally on the joint, it's potentially more damaging. That's what I'm wondering about.

 

[jobo]

So joints can't take on work? Joints take on force when the leverage/positioning isn't right, so the muscles can't support it (as much) in that particular position.

If that wasn't the case, then technically no one should ever get joint injuries doing any exercise, ever.

What I'm wondering is if you pause and turnaround a movement at a point in which there is greater stress more proportionally on the joint, it's potentially more damaging. That's what I'm wondering about.

but that is not the point of greatest stress, the lever is exactly the same length no matter what position you are in,, but mechanic advantage is more against you the lower you go. now it would be high stress if your squatting like a horse stance, but your not or at least shouldn't be, the weight should stay of over your centre of gravity, the issue with box squats is people dont do that, its not supposed to be a weighted sitting down exercise.

if you cant squat to parallel with out a box its to heavy for you, the answer to nearly all weight training issues, is TAKE SOME WEIGHT OF THE BAR


and no you should never get a joint injury doing exercise, unless your doing it wrong or are doing to much haven't conditioned your body for the exercise

 

[_Simon_]

but that is not the point of greatest stress, the lever is exactly the same length no matter what position you are in,, but mechanic advantage is more against you the lower you go. now it would be high stress if your squatting like a horse stance, but your not or at least shouldn't be, the weight should stay of over your centre of gravity, the issue with box squats is people dont do that, its not supposed to be a weighted sitting down exercise.

if you cant squat to parallel with out a box its to heavy for you, the answer to nearly all weight training issues, is TAKE SOME WEIGHT OF THE BAR


and no you should never get a joint injury doing exercise, unless your doing it wrong or are doing to much haven't conditioned your body for the exercise

I can squat to parallel without a box, that's not why I'm doing them.

It's all well and good to say you "should never" get a joint injury, but people do. And not even related to it being a technique issue, but not all people are physically suited to every exercise.

So anyway to circle back, for a loaded BB squat, do you think it's potentially damaging for the knees to stop the movement when thighs are parallel?

 

[jobo]

I can squat to parallel without a box, that's not why I'm doing them.

It's all well and good to say you "should never" get a joint injury, but people do. And not even related to it being a technique issue, but not all people are physically suited to every exercise.

So anyway to circle back, for a loaded BB squat, do you think it's potentially damaging for the knees to stop the movement when thighs are parallel?

NO, its less damaging than going lower, but there is only damage in both cases if you over load the bar, , its quit certain that preexisting injuries are more inflamed by full range of movement, which is evident to yourself and why you dont do them

and yes, unless its a genetic abnormality , joint injury in non contact exercise is always a product of poor technique and over load, or with chronic injuries that you just wear them out by over use, which is still over load

ive noted before that the % of middle aged people and those a fair bit younger, on here , with hip and knee problems seem disproportionately higher than the population at large, there may be a reason for that ? ( horse stance )

 

[dvcochran]

I've read this too but am still curious... I've been doing BB box squats to alleviate the stress on my knees (puts it more on hips/glutes), and also to not go too deep a squat due to my pelvic issues. But it still means the thighs go to parallel, BUT because it's more of a bigger hinge at the hips I'd think the load is more dispersed in the glutes.

BUT that being said as I've been able to finally go heavier with them, my knees have been hurting alot, so I don't know.

I might give full range squats a try but with lighter weight on the BB.

How do full range, no weight squats feel?

 

[jobo]

I can squat to parallel without a box, that's not why I'm doing them.

It's all well and good to say you "should never" get a joint injury, but people do. And not even related to it being a technique issue, but not all people are physically suited to every exercise.

So anyway to circle back, for a loaded BB squat, do you think it's potentially damaging for the knees to stop the movement when thighs are parallel?

and full range is untimely a pointless exercise, your building strength in a movement range that will only ever be useful for doing full range squats

 

[dvcochran]

joint injury in non contact exercise is always a product of poor technique

Agree for about 80% of the time. Predisposition has to be considered.

or with chronic injuries that you just wear them out by over use, which is still over load

I don't fully agree. In someone with chronic injures, motion and movement are always better than no movement. It keep the ligature pliable and arthritis (OA only) at bay as much as possible.
See point #3.

ive noted before that the % of middle aged people and those a fair bit younger, on here , with hip and knee problems seem disproportionately higher than the population at large, there may be a reason for that ? ( horse stance )

In regards to motion, the lack of motion will always have adverse effects whether a person has chronic injuries or not. And I am only talking about physical conditioning exercises or normal daily movement.

You mentioned horse stances being bad. With regards to bad technique which has already been covered, how are they bad for a person?

 

[dvcochran]

and full range is untimely a pointless exercise, your building strength in a movement range that will only ever be useful for doing full range squats

I am not trying to diverge, but shouldn't exercises with little to no weight be performed with full range?