Your Fighting Stances?

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the_kicking_fiend

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I just wanted to get everyone's views on their fighting stance in sparring or real life combat. I'll start it off by saying I usually fight left foot forward, bouncing up and down on both feet, but slightly shifting the weight from front to back with each bounce. I keep my left arm almost straight covering my sides from sidekicks and my back arm up by my chin as a fist. I tend to move around a lot too, but my stance is sometimes different for different opponents. For example, using Bruce Lee fighting stance is always pretty intimidating! lol

your friendly fiend,
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yilisifu

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Stop bouncing if you want to stay in one piece...
 
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the_kicking_fiend

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Why should i stop bouncing? I'm not literally jumping up and down in the air and it helps me stay light on my feet. I didn't ask for your critism or opinion I might add. I asked what other people's styles were. My own style and stance has proved very effective so far as several trophies have proved and I don't appreciate it when someone just jumps along and says hey that's rubbish. :shrug:

your not so friendly fiend,
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Matt Stone

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Originally posted by the_kicking_fiend
Why should i stop bouncing?

Because if you are hit while you lack connection to the ground, you will find rather quickly that you no longer possess the ability to absorb the incoming force. Without some resistance underneath you, whatever force hits you will project you along the direction of that line of force... You bounce, you get hit, you fly across room and bounce off wall... :D

I'm not literally jumping up and down in the air and it helps me stay light on my feet.

Then what are you doing? Even if it is only slight, the up and down movement will break your root, allowing someone to time your boingy-boingy and catch you at the zenith of your bounce (when you are weakest). Even if they do not actually hit you, throwing a convincing feint at that point will cause you to react in a less than satisfactory manner.

And it doesn't help you stay "light on your feet." You weigh what you weigh. What it does is keep you in motion and make you feel as if you are more responsive than you are. If you are bouncing up and down as well as moving forward and backward, and you are attacked in a particular way that does not groove with your rhythm, you are sunk. Similarly, you will eventually develop a predictable rhythm that your opponent can exploit.

I didn't ask for your critism or opinion I might add. I asked what other people's styles were.

Well, if you post your opinions and methods in the hopes of gaining information, then be prepared for folks whose opinions differ from yours to offer the benefit of their experience and skill. Given that Yilisifu has quite a bit of time in training, more than your several years, I suspect he has seen a bit more than you...

My own style and stance has proved very effective so far as several trophies have proved

If your method is so effective, why do you a) change it as you say you do above, or b) ask for information on alternative methods?

And trophies don't mean much outside of games and competitions... When I used to compete, I used to specifically train to catch my opponents on the bounce (we had a lot of TKD people in my hometown that liked to play "bouncy ball"). And a well-timed punch at the zenith of the bounce put an end to many a boingy-boingy sparring match... ;)

and I don't appreciate it when someone just jumps along and says hey that's rubbish. :shrug:

What you don't appreciate is someone coming in and telling you that the thing you have become so proud of is something that isn't necessarily all that useful or worthwhile... It is a natural reaction when someone criticizes something that another person values. Toughen your skin and learn to get over it.

your not so friendly fiend,

Why not so friendly? Are your feathers ruffled that badly?

Try this -

When you take up your fighting stance, stay on your feet. When you advance, press through the sole of the back foot. When you retreat, press through the sole of the front foot. Do not hop, do not bounce. Slide from one position to the next. When moving laterally, step the rear foot across first, then slip the front foot into position. Squeeze the inner thighs together ever so slightly to "load" the stance. You'll be surprised at how responsive a "flat footed" stance can be.

Gambarimasu.
:asian:
 

cali_tkdbruin

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Originally posted by yilisifu
Stop bouncing if you want to stay in one piece...

Bouncing, that is staying light on your feet is pretty common among we TKD competitors in our tourneys. It's sort of like boxers in their matches. Boxers also tend to bounce when they spar.

I guess the moving up and down on our toes becomes ingrained in us from the time we're white belts when we're beginning to learn the sparring game... :idunno:

:ultracool
 
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Kingston

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stances for tournies...sure...real life.....:rofl: thats all i have to say about that.
 
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yilisifu

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The bouncing thing may work in tournaments (particularly TKD tourneys), but in real life, it's a death wish. I didn't say it was rubbish (but for the record, I will now state that it is)...listen to those who have gone before. That's how you learn.
 
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the_kicking_fiend

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In reply to Yiliquan1, I just don't agree with what you're saying. staying light on your feet is one of the most important things to do in sparring. When you're hit you can ride the impact, if you're stuck on standing your absorb more of the damage beacsue you can't move away from the hit as fast. By moving in the same direction as the impact, you reduce the overall net force, simple physics really.

If you're not light on your feet you can't ride a kick as easily and i.e. can't move with it as fast. This results in a much greater amount of damage received.

I wasn't trying to get help with my stance either. That wasn't the point of the thread, I just wanted to start a discussion!

Like I said, my own methods work very well for me. So obviously it's not flawed or I would be having trouble with it!

Bruce Lee himself use to keep very light on his feet, constantly shifting his weight from front to back leg, his whole body moving, it helps you stay sharp and helps you ride impacts as previously explained. I don't see why you're so persistent in trying pick holes in this argument because to be quite honest it seems ridiculous that you shouldn't keep light on your feet. My master does it, I've seen Paul Donnelly 7th dan spar and he does it, Dave Oliver, Kenny Walten, etc.... when you go to tournaments 90% of the people spar very light on and fast on their feet. And the people who win and always the fastest and sharpest guys.

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ThuNder_FoOt

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At my school, we call this bounce the "Moving Step". We also place alot of importance on footwork at my Dojhang. And without a the moving step, such footwork is very difficult to perform.

Its not just TKD players that use it... Boxers use it, kickboxers, JKD players, thaiboxers, Savateurs & etc. Alot of Modern styles are taking on this style of movement. Its a good way to keep footwork flowing. Also, your feet don't actually leave the ground when it is done correctly. The balls of the feet always have contact with the ground.

The bounce is also another form deception. You can give the impression of a certain rhythm to gain an advantage.... i believe Bruce Lee refers to it as "Cadence" in his book, and has a whole section on the subject.

Bouncing is not just for tournaments. I've been in confrontations where my ability to out manuever my opponent gave me the opportunities I needed. Witout a moving step, my footwork wouldn't have been as efficient.
 

Zepp

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I generally prefer sliding to bouncing myself. But adding some spring to your step can have its advantages, depending who you're fighting. A lot of inexperienced kickboxers and TKDists overdo the bouncing and end up doing a Tigger impression. I think that's what yilisifu and Yiliquan1 were particularly worried about.

Our style teaches that generally you should stay in a low stance, and not rise up uneccessarily. The best reson I've heard for this is that you can always rise up very fast, but you can't drop down or lower your stance any faster than gravity will carry you.

As for foot placement, my preferred stance is kind of like a hybrid between a back stance and the fencing "on guard" position. I narrow it or make it more square, depending on how concerned I am about attacks to my back. Keeping my front foot pointed towards my opponent reminds me to chamber my kicks, and makes my knee less vulnerable than it would be if my foot wereturned to the side. If I'm in close, my arms are always moving, but I start with my lead arm up so that my fist is just below my eyes. Hasn't seemed to fail me yet, but I'm always open to suggestions.
 

Matt Stone

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Originally posted by the_kicking_fiend
In reply to Yiliquan1, I just don't agree with what you're saying.

Well, lucky you, you don't have to... :shrug: Take what I, or anyone else says, and use it or don't. Your choice, your decision. Empty cup, full cup, puddle of tea on the table. All the options are yours...

staying light on your feet is one of the most important things to do in sparring.

If you say so.

When you're hit you can ride the impact, if you're stuck on standing your absorb more of the damage beacsue you can't move away from the hit as fast. By moving in the same direction as the impact, you reduce the overall net force, simple physics really.

What you describe is feasible, but your timing would have to be impeccable and totally flawless. Otherwise what you describe is not "riding the punch," but rather what we call "being knocked down..." Ultimately that is the ending we hope to avoid - having the incoming strike (whatever it may be) determine the direction of our movement because we were unable to provide any resistance at all.

If you're not light on your feet you can't ride a kick as easily and i.e. can't move with it as fast. This results in a much greater amount of damage received.

"Ride a kick?" If I understand what you are saying, it sounds like you advocate being "light on your feet" (or alternately being in the air at the moment of impact) so that when you get hit (not if) you are able to just fly off the end of the opponent's strike rather than staying in place and having to absorb some of the punishment... Sounds like you are planning on taking a lot of hits, then, as opposed to trying to avoid them.

I wasn't trying to get help with my stance either. That wasn't the point of the thread, I just wanted to start a discussion!

Okay.

Like I said, my own methods work very well for me. So obviously it's not flawed or I would be having trouble with it!

Not necessarily true, but if you want to think so, feel free to do so. Whether you have experienced difficulty with your method or not has little to do with it being a valid method. It simply means you have yet to come across the people capable of negating your "light on your feet" advantage.

May I ask, what kind of fights have you had? Against what styles? I suspect they may be limited to "tag you're it" fights. Had you run across anyone whose style taught them to penetrate into your stance and space, you would find little comfort in being in the air at the moment of impact...

Bruce Lee himself...

When in doubt, invoke the God of Martial Arts, the Almighty Brucie.

I have little respect for Brucie Boy as the be-all-end-all martial artist. He didn't do anything that was so incredibly new, especially given the 5,000 + years history of martial arts. He just went public, and in a very loud way. We owe him a lot for opening martial arts to the general public, but his methods are not necessarily all that sound. If they were, there would be much less controvesy in the JKD world, much more successful JKD schools (it seems JKD is a supplement to many arts, but it just doesn't seem to get taught all by itself that much... If JKD is so superior, why learn anything else at all?).

Finally, much of what kept Brucie capable of doing things were not so much his martial technique, but his amazing physique. Get a 38 year old chubby guy with no martial arts history, and tell him to bounce back and forth in front of his opponent because being "light on his feet" is going to help him with his attacker. You will find your 38 year old chubby guy eating techinque after technique, landing on his backside more often than "riding" the technique to safety.

I don't see why you're so persistent in trying pick holes in this argument because to be quite honest it seems ridiculous that you shouldn't keep light on your feet.

And I think it is ridiculous that people bounce about like drugged up kangaroo rats. Boingy boingy boingy goes the opponent. Up and down and up and down and up and down and BANG and down hard... :D

My master does it, I've seen Paul Donnelly 7th dan spar and he does it, Dave Oliver, Kenny Walten, etc.... when you go to tournaments 90% of the people spar very light on and fast on their feet.

And all the lemmings go over the cliff, too...

And the people who win and always the fastest and sharpest guys.

You are right, but the people who win are not always the bounciest...

Gambarimasu.
:asian:
 
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MartialArtist

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I also don't agree with the notion that bouncing with your feet is bad. I bounce on my feet, and it does improve how fast you execute a technique at times. It's comparable to jumping rope, but even lower. That's not the main issue though, the issue is speed. A lot of boxers, TKDers, and many other MAists bounce on their feet. It all depends on the person I guess... If you aren't graceful or fast, don't try to act like Ali. :shrug: However, bouncing isn't something you do when you're infighting. Bouncing isn't something you also do when you're very limited on space.

I use both the orthodox and the southpaw stances a lot, something a bit wider than a generic boxer's or a sport TKD's stance. Sometimes, I may switch to more of a outside speed wrestling ready stance. It really depends on the situation but when sparring, I usually use those stances.
 
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RCastillo

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Originally posted by MartialArtist
I also don't agree with the notion that bouncing with your feet is bad. I bounce on my feet, and it does improve how fast you execute a technique at times. It's comparable to jumping rope, but even lower. That's not the main issue though, the issue is speed. A lot of boxers, TKDers, and many other MAists bounce on their feet. It all depends on the person I guess... If you aren't graceful or fast, don't try to act like Ali. :shrug: However, bouncing isn't something you do when you're infighting. Bouncing isn't something you also do when you're very limited on space.

I use both the orthodox and the southpaw stances a lot, something a bit wider than a generic boxer's or a sport TKD's stance. Sometimes, I may switch to more of a outside speed wrestling ready stance. It really depends on the situation but when sparring, I usually use those stances.

I pretty much agree with this post. I must be looking in a mirror here? My twin maybe........:confused:

At any rate,great post!:)
 
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Kingston

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bouncing is great......if your a kangaroo. Or dressed up as a bunny for halloween.
 

Marginal

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I used to bounce when I sparred. Never really did anything for my sparring (except make me tire faster). None of my instructors encourage the practice either, "I'm just going to time you and smack you when you can't alter your movement." which was further incentive to not bounce. The main thing they were interested in was making sure I wasn't flat footed and that I had my hands up.

My general sparring stance in classes is a shallow L stance or a more direct facing stance with my arms up in a boxer's guarding position. (Tends to work well given ITF/USTF style sparring since back hits aren't allowed, and it restricts attack options.)
 

don bohrer

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At this time I favor my waist and shoulders squared to my oponent. My feet are just wider than my shoulders with one leg leading the other and my knees are bent. When I advance I like to move off my oponents center line and crash back into them. The step looks much like a cresent. I still need to work on controlling my height while moving and my feet just skim the surface.

My front kick has changed because of this movement. It is more of a snap kick rather than a push kick. I lift my knee letting my heel touch my behind then shoot out the kick, and return to the starting position as quickly as possible before lowering. However in the past I kind of moved more like a kick boxer.
 

tkd_boi817

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hopping to keep your feet light is not bad, but during your whole hopping time, i can attack you.. when you hop, you go up and then down.. during the time you go up, i can go in and attack you..when your up, your stance is not set..

i am right-handed and what is my better leg? right leg? NO. its my left.
when i get into my sparring stance, even though i am right-handed, my left leg is back.
 

zDom

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Generally, my fighting stance in free sparring or competition resembles a boxer's stance.

Sometimes I have a slight bounce; sometimes a subtle torso twist motion both similar to a spring.

This can disguise the initiation of an attack as there is less inertia to overcome.

I haven't found my slight bounce to be detrimental at all if I need to absorb a strike to not be knocked down or need to "root" for a hard block, I simply sink a little deeper into my stance by bending my knees.

But then sometimes I DON'T bounce.

I often switch my lead leg, fighting out of both left leg and right leg during any one matchup. I am equally as comfortable in either stance.

My sparring stance as well as selection of techniques (when I AM "deciding" and not just moving with no-mind) is based on this principle:

Set up expectations on the part of my opponent and then surprise them by doing something that is not expected.
 
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