youn wha ryu

hogstooth

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Never heard of the art. Who was his Kendo teacher? Who was his Judo teacher? What organization was he promoted in? Don't know anything about this art or any other Korean art. I have trained in Okinawan and Japanese arts my whole life which is why I am interested in his Kendo and Judo rankings.
 

AMP-RYU

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Listen this is rediculous! I have trained in GMHMA since 1995 and the Legend of Youn Wha gives students something to believe in! Everyone needs something and this is what we have. Not one person here can actually prove that this is actually untrue! I wasnt there and no one else here was! This is a tradition that has been passed from instructor to student for years and for anyone here to hate on it ,all I have to say is ,your not true martial artist! A true Martial artist respects other styles and don't tear on one for their history! Youn Wha is not an association of McDojos. It is just a great system and for that reason they do not fail. If any other school is better why don't they open other schools? Because of fear their style is not superior enough to make it! I would be happy to put our students against any students in the country, and I think we would prevail! I believe in our system and always will. The reason why you don't see world chamionship titles is because we don't train to fight for sport we train not to fight and then tournaments are for fun! I believe you should stay away from schools where the instructors are trying to lure students in by bragging about all of the awards and championships they have, many are just small local tourny wins and have no credibility. Training someone to fight only supports violence and not protection, Im not saying we don't teach our students to fight because we do, but to protect themselves incase of danger. Not to go to school and brag about what they know and end up getting stabbed! Sorry if I have offended anyone here but I think I had to say this!

Thank You Very Much,
Jimmy Mann
2nd Dan Black Belt WYWRA/GMHMA
 

Cirdan

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(...) all I have to say is ,your not true martial artist! A true Martial artist respects other styles and don't tear on one for their history!
If any other school is better why don't they open other schools? Because of fear their style is not superior enough to make it!

Perhaps a little self reflection is in order...
 

AMP-RYU

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Well I sure apprieciate the reply, even though you pieced together two seperate points. The first had to do with ripping on a styles history, the second is my rebuddle to youn wha being a mcdojo! Nice try but next time don't piece my words together! Thank You
 

AMP-RYU

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Cirdan its actually spelled "Choice"....what cult are you talking about? Your prolly not even a martial artist are you?
 

Daniel Sullivan

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Jimmy,

I did not quote the things you said regarding history because the quality of a martial art is not affected by a mythical/legendary origin story, be it true or not. And having a soft spot for the mythical and the legendary, I am not inclined to be critical. Besides, the way that KKW revises recent history is, to me, far more agregious than having a legendary origin story.

Youn Wha is not an association of McDojos. It is just a great system and for that reason they do not fail. If any other school is better why don't they open other schools? Because of fear their style is not superior enough to make it!
There are plenty of systems with multiple schools all over the US. I can name at least five in my local area alone, our own being one of them. On a larger scale, perhaps you are unfamiliar with Jhoon Rhee, who has more schools under a single man's name than anyone else in the world. By your logic, taekwondo; his method in particular, is superior to all other arts (Frankly, I don't believe than any art is inherently superior to any other). Before you go making such an uninformed statement, check your facts.

Beside, the reason that a master can open multiple successful locations has nothing to do with the quality of the style and everything to do with the ability of his or her ability to manage and operate a successful business. A mediocre martial artist with a solid background in business and marketing will nearly always be more successful than a truly fantastic martial artist with weak business skills.

I would be happy to put our students against any students in the country, and I think we would prevail! I believe in our system and always will.
You believe in your system and the quality of teaching that you and your students receive. That is good. But don't be arrogant and naive. You believe that your students will prevail against any students in the country. That is a very tall order. Arrogant because you have no real foundation besides confidence in your own system upon which to base this statement. Naive because to "put [your] students against any students in the country" you need to either have a street fight, which you claim you don't train your students to engage in, or a rule set agreed upon by both competing teams. If you issue the challenge, then to back up that claim, your students would be competing under quite a few sparring rule sets with which they will be unfamiliar with or unaccustomed to competing under. No matter how good you are, if you're stuck in someone else's rule set, you're at a very serious disadvantage.

The reason why you don't see world chamionship titles is because we don't train to fight for sport we train not to fight and then tournaments are for fun! I believe you should stay away from schools where the instructors are trying to lure students in by bragging about all of the awards and championships they have, many are just small local tourny wins and have no credibility.
And you base this statement on what? Those tournaments have credibility as local tournaments within a given style. If a school has made the achievements then it is well within their rights to mention them in their literature or to potential students. And since your system has multiple schools, you're certainly luring students in with something as well. Again, nothing wrong with that, but don't criticize others for making use of their credentials and achievements to bring in students when you do the exact same thing; you use whatever credentials and achievements of your school and style in order to market to customers.

Training someone to fight only supports violence and not protection, Im not saying we don't teach our students to fight because we do, but to protect themselves incase of danger. Not to go to school and brag about what they know and end up getting stabbed!
First, saying that teaching people tofight only supports violence and not protection and then saying that you teach your students to fight, but that you somehow are completely expiated from your first statement is the sort of nonsense that polititians do to justify voting in a way counter to their stated platforms.

Also, no schools teach their students to fight so that they can go to school and brag. I would gather that there are some schools that teach in the idiom of Cobra Kai of the Karate Kid movies, but I've never seen one. Every school that I have been associated with or have any contact with strongly urges against such things, and I've been at it for over 30 years. Every master interviewed in every martial arts trade magazine will say that they teach their students to protect themselves, not to be bragging bullies. So your position is hardly unique.

Sorry if I have offended anyone here but I think I had to say this!
I'm not offended, and I do not mean any offense to you.

Daniel
 
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Cirdan

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Your prolly not even a martial artist are you?

How DARE you question my status as a Martial Artist(TM)? The world will not accept this cowardly insult. I will have you know I received the full secrets of the ultimate system, KuchiBushi-Do, from the Spirit of the Celestial Dragon himself back when I meditated twenty years in the outhouse with only one roll of toilet paper!

Seriously, grow up.
 

AMP-RYU

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You know what your all childish, i basically came on here to defend my system which I should never have had to do. Secondly What is being said is that our system is a mcdojo system which basically takes money for ranks with crappy training, this is not true to our style. You can say Jhoon Rhee has more schools under his name yes this is true, because his name is basically as franchise. He doesnt personally teach the instructors that teach his students. Does he personaly take time out and train his instructors...maybe some not all. Does he over see the testing of all his students.....prolly not. I'm not saying he or his system is bad but its not ran the same way. You dog on a style because they are a mcdojo, because they have alot of schools, that doesnt make a school a mcdojo. A Mcdojo is a school that forces students into thousands of dollars worth of contracts to do something, the students don't even know they like. Then when the students quit because its not for them or they feel the instruction in not superior, they sue them for thousands of dollars. I have had personal experience with this, having many students come to my school after being sued. The school that Im refering to happened to one that used Jhoon Rhee's name. They are now out of business. You cant assume a school is a mcdojo because they have alot of schools. Most of our instructors started in the same place learning from one instructor and then moved out of town and opened their own school. Everyother month all the students gather in one place for a testing, in which Grand Master Han will come and test his students. I what I said about our students facing any other school in the country, I meant I think our training is just as good if not better than any other training in the country, am I saying it is perfact....no it can always be improved, and always is! The people who run our system are some of the best in the country and I will always believe in them. Another thing is that championships don't make a martial artists and I don't like the reputation that martial arts schools get because of this.
Cirdan I'm going to question this because I have never seen a REAL MARTIAL ARTIST cut down another style or system like your doing mine...you may know the sport but until you learn there is more to martial arts than hard talk and battle, than you'll never be a true martial artist. I mean you called my style a CULT"???? Whats that about?
Thank you and I hope we can act like adults from now on...thank you.
 

Lisa

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Attention All Users:

Lets be polite and respectful shall we? Use the ignore button if you need to.

Thanks.

Lisa Deneka
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Cirdan

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YWM, what makes you think I have any interest in the sport side of the arts? I don`t want you or anyone else calling me a "REAL MARTIAL ARTIST" either, it would be bloody embarrasing.
 

Daniel Sullivan

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You know what your all childish, i basically came on here to defend my system which I should never have had to do. Secondly What is being said is that our system is a mcdojo system which basically takes money for ranks with crappy training, this is not true to our style. .
I've made no statements to this effect. Yes, you have every right to defend your school/system, and I do respect you for doing so. But in doing so you have made some very unfounded statements.

You can say Jhoon Rhee has more schools under his name yes this is true, because his name is basically as franchise. He doesnt personally teach the instructors that teach his students. Does he personaly take time out and train his instructors...maybe some not all. Does he over see the testing of all his students.....prolly not. I'm not saying he or his system is bad but its not ran the same way.
Early on, he did, but he has way too many schools to put in a personal presence in each one at this point. My point in bringing him up was that he has multiple schools. Your comment implied that having multiple schools is a testament to the effectiveness of the system, in which case the presence, or lack there of, of a GM shouldn't make a difference anyway, assuming that masters didn't merely purchase their rank (an all too common occurance in many organizations).

You dog on a style because they are a mcdojo, because they have alot of schools, that doesnt make a school a mcdojo.

I have not dogged on any style, including this one. Read my previous responses on this thread and I guarantee that you'll find that I've been very polite in my comments on the style.

If this is not directed to me, then please respond to them specifically. I have not now, nor ever on this board, called any school or system a McDojo by name or implication. It is not only inappropriate, but libelous so to do. And in any case, I've never been to your school, so I have no basis upon which to comment.

A Mcdojo is a school that forces students into thousands of dollars worth of contracts to do something, the students don't even know they like. Then when the students quit because its not for them or they feel the instruction in not superior, they sue them for thousands of dollars. I have had personal experience with this, having many students come to my school after being sued.
Some McDojos are like this. Others are just schools set up by well meaning people who may or may not be competent using a profitable business model and generally having a greater focus on the business side than on the MA side.

The school that Im refering to happened to one that used Jhoon Rhee's name. They are now out of business. You cant assume a school is a mcdojo because they have alot of schools.
100% agree. I never assume anything about another school.

Most of our instructors started in the same place learning from one instructor and then moved out of town and opened their own school. Everyother month all the students gather in one place for a testing, in which Grand Master Han will come and test his students.

There are a number of school in our area that work this way, ours being one of them.

I what I said about our students facing any other school in the country, I meant I think our training is just as good if not better than any other training in the country, am I saying it is perfact....no it can always be improved, and always is! The people who run our system are some of the best in the country and I will always believe in them.
Okay, if this is what you meant, then this is what you should have said. I'm glad that you are proud of and apparently well served in the training you receive and, again, I respect you for promoting your school. But your original statement didn't read this way.

Another thing is that championships don't make a martial artists and I don't like the reputation that martial arts schools get because of this.
Agree and disagree: 100% agree that championships don't make a martial artist.

But I disagree regarding regarding championships negatively impacting the reputation of martial arts schools in general. Championships don't sully martial arts schools one bit. Unethical business practices, egotism, poor instruction, and bait & switch tactics do, all of which, sadly, are not uncommon.

The remainder of your post was addressed to Cirdan, so I did not quote it.

The only other thing that I have to say to you, Jimmy, is this: While I can appreciate that you are defending your school and system, you don't need to respond as if your back is up against the wall. Its just an internet forum. Some people here you will get on well with, and others not. Dialogue with the ones you get on well with and give due respect and politeness to those you don't and leave them be beyond that.

Daniel
 

davedaylight

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Hello, sorry to drag this thread back after a month, but as someone had posted a link to it in another thread I figured I might as well chime in here.

I have been training in Grandmaster Han's Youn Wha Ryu for the past 17 months. I have trained in 3 different martial arts organizations before this, and I can honestly say that it is the best that I have encountered so far. The instructors that I have met have all been great, I have not met anyone who is in it for the money or anything like that--for instance my sister paid for a month, but ended up hurting her knee and wasn't able to continue training, my instructor let her come back with a full month paid for the month she missed. They don't do contracts, there is a form you have to fill out--it's a liability form for insurance purposes.

Every testing has a Master (5th Dan & up) present to grade the testing, Grandmaster Han isn't able to be at every testing, but he does still personally go and grade testings--we're hoping to be able to invite him out here to Phoenix for a testing next year. We test every 2 months, but that doesn't mean that you get to test every 2 months, you don't test until your instructor says you're ready. I've been held up before, and I've met several others who weren't allowed to test because they weren't ready.

For me this was exactly the type of school I was looking for, a hard training school that has good sharp technique (while searching for a school I had visited a couple that had very sloppy technique), that emphasizes character and was more self defense oriented than sport oriented (nothing wrong with sport oriented schools, just wasn't what I was looking for).

I had started out training in St. Louis, MO, and then ended up moving here to Phoenix, AZ and was delighted to find that a married couple had moved here from Master Jeremy's school in Arkansas and were teaching out here. It was very nice to be able to continue my training in the same organization and not have to try to find a new one. Which is another thing I like about this organization, it's the same training, they train just as hard as we did back in St. Louis and it's the same teaching.

Here's a link to video of Master Zach Shaw (5th Dan) that one of his students made of him:
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=zach+shaw+fist+of+legend&emb=0&aq=f#
The music in this video might not be appropriate for some offices or children--even though I don't believe there's any foul language, basically just saying the music might not be for everyone.

This is footage from when he was a 4th Dan, in the tournament sparring he's the one in the black chest gear.
 
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davedaylight

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Fair enough...I would check out one of the schools, but I don't think there are any in Socal. But I make no apollogies for what I said. You have to understand the kind of patent BS that we get around here. And with stories of mystical alchemist princesses tricking all of the world's MA masters into giving up their secrets, well...you get the point.

Ya, doesn't look like there's one in the San Diego area yet, looks like Edwards AFB, Costa Mesa, Bakersfield and Anaheim at the moment.
 

Daniel Sullivan

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Hello, sorry to drag this thread back after a month, but as someone had posted a link to it in another thread I figured I might as well chime in here.
Twas I who posted said link:) Given how upset Youn Hwa Man was about people degrading his school by calling it a McDojo, I found it rather hypocritical of him to pick out some California taekwondo dojang, seemingly at random, then post a link to their website on the taekwondo section and label them as the "Definition of a McDojo." He provided no particular reason for his picking them out and was asked several times through the course of eight pages by several people (yourself included) to explain why, but has yet to do so.

I posted the link to this thread for that reason. Hey, maybe he trained there and has some insight as to why he labeled them so, but he never elaborated. And even if his assertion is correct, there is no reason to badmouth the school on the web. In all, I thought the thread was in poor taste. I will say that is sparked a lot of good conversation, however.:)

In any case, I watched the video and it was pretty good, though I didn't see anything particularly unusual. The sparring looked like WTF sparring, and while there were more hand techniques than I normally see in WTF, they were all within WTF rules. The sequences in the dojang looked like taekwondo and the first form that Master Shaw performed was Koryo. Is your school a KKW school or do you simply use the taegeuk forms?

Daniel
 

AMP-RYU

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Twas I who posted said link:) Given how upset Youn Hwa Man was about people degrading his school by calling it a McDojo, I found it rather hypocritical of him to pick out some California taekwondo dojang, seemingly at random, then post a link to their website on the taekwondo section and label them as the "Definition of a McDojo." He provided no particular reason for his picking them out and was asked several times through the course of eight pages by several people (yourself included) to explain why, but has yet to do so.

I posted the link to this thread for that reason. Hey, maybe he trained there and has some insight as to why he labeled them so, but he never elaborated. And even if his assertion is correct, there is no reason to badmouth the school on the web. In all, I thought the thread was in poor taste. I will say that is sparked a lot of good conversation, however.:)

In any case, I watched the video and it was pretty good, though I didn't see anything particularly unusual. The sparring looked like WTF sparring, and while there were more hand techniques than I normally see in WTF, they were all within WTF rules. The sequences in the dojang looked like taekwondo and the first form that Master Shaw performed was Koryo. Is your school a KKW school or do you simply use the taegeuk forms?

Daniel

Ok let me set this straight. For one the school I posted a link to is in saint louis missouri not in california! Second I have very valid points to why their school is a mcdojo. Most of...not all but most of their instructors have less than 2 years of total training time. They have masters with less than 3 years of traing time. They bait their students in with awesome deals... trial period $25.99 3 weeks and free uniform, than when their students decide to quit because the training is aweful they sue them for the remainder of their contract, in upwards of $2000. They learn through green belt what we teach at white belt. Monthly belt testing even though the student is not ready??? And when the parents say no they threaten with their contract! Ive competed against their black belts on several occasions and they don't have the training they should! Koryo form at black belt?....no this should be a red belt form! Maybe my outlook is different but when a parenet pulls their child from a tourny because she doesnt think her student is good enough to compete with the other schools....this makes me wonder! I personally know several of their former instructors and they are happier now teaching on their own! I'm not trying to offend anyone I was just pionting out the points that if you think my association is a Mcdojo then you should check out this school! Sorry if I offended anyone, I appologize!:asian:
 

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