You might disagree but I think this is great news

ATC

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You may think you are disagreeing with what I say but you are disagreeing with what you think I say.
No, with what you say. How can you know what I think. Again this is the perfect example of you wanting me to agree with you, and becasue I don't you wrap a "you don't understand" tag around it. You can't think for me or anyone else. I disagree I disagree, my reason for doing so makes no difference, regardless if you believe I understand you or not.

Gym, club etc is not semantics, it's more a frame of reference. You wouldn't see MMAers poncing around in a studio. A studio also denotes a commercial enterprise where as many of us are in a martial arts club denoting a non commercial group of like minded people. We have different words for a purpose.
This seems like arguing just for the sake of arguing...OK your right on this.

Guess I understand.

Nah I just can't let it be so easy, sorry.
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So where does you club (of like minded people) practice? I would hope in some commercial enterprise such as a building that could be called a studio, or a gym for that matter.

Guess I don't understand.
 

Tez3

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No, with what you say. How can you know what I think. Again this is the perfect example of you wanting me to agree with you, and becasue I don't you wrap a "you don't understand" tag around it. You can't think for me or anyone else. I disagree I disagree, my reason for doing so makes no difference, regardless if you believe I understand you or not.


This seems like arguing just for the sake of arguing...OK your right on this.

Guess I understand.

Nah I just can't let it be so easy, sorry.
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So where does you club (of like minded people) practice? I would hope in some commercial enterprise such as a building that could be called a studio, or a gym for that matter.

Guess I don't understand.

My club is in Harden Barracks, Catterick Garrison. (send all money to Catterick Garrison Martial Arts Club there lol)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catterick_Garrison
 

ATC

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My club is in Harden Barracks, Catterick Garrison. (send all money to Catterick Garrison Martial Arts Club there lol)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catterick_Garrison

Glad that many on this here forum site can argue his/her points and still have fun. We will not all always agree or disagree on the same things but we all train hard and love the arts.

Here's a pint my friend {_}? and if you don't do the beer or ale thing then soda, jucie or water it is for you. Cheers.
 
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mango.man

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Nah I just can't let it be so easy, sorry.
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So where does you club (of like minded people) practice? I would hope in some commercial enterprise such as a building that could be called a studio, or a gym for that matter.

Guess I don't understand.

Steering this back into the general direction of TKD in the Olympics, what do you suppose the Lopez family referred to their garage as, when that is where they were training?

I know that for the first 10 months that we were with the coach we are with now, that we trained on his driveway in front of his house. We referred to it as "The Concrete Jungle" and sometimes as "The Driveway Dojang". But it certainly wasn't a club, school, gym, or any sort of commercial enterprise or building. And it really didn't matter. It was a place where us like minded people could get together and beat the crap out of each other for 10-14 hours a week.
 

terryl965

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Can we all just get along, wait that is only in the movies. I mean we have a difference of opinion here and that is all. Remember breath in the good air breath out the bad.
 

ATC

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Steering this back into the general direction of TKD in the Olympics, what do you suppose the Lopez family referred to their garage as, when that is where they were training?

I know that for the first 10 months that we were with the coach we are with now, that we trained on his driveway in front of his house. We referred to it as "The Concrete Jungle" and sometimes as "The Driveway Dojang". But it certainly wasn't a club, school, gym, or any sort of commercial enterprise or building. And it really didn't matter. It was a place where us like minded people could get together and beat the crap out of each other for 10-14 hours a week.
LOL....all in context. As language is today one word does not represent an absolute. My garage is just that but it can double as whatever I want it to double as. I put a bed in there and I can call it a bedroom. Put some mats down and do some MA training, then it can be a dojang, studio, gym or whatever you want it to.

But I think if you read the comments from both of us again you will see that you are basicly stating the same thing I am.
 

Tez3

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Can we all just get along, wait that is only in the movies. I mean we have a difference of opinion here and that is all. Remember breath in the good air breath out the bad.

Ah Terry we do get on!
It's a matter of perception and I think cultural differences, say studio to British people and they will think of a film studio, dance studio, painters studio, to many of us a martial arts studio would sound out warning bells as not being 'right', it sounds too poncy and unmartial. The couple I have heard about here are based on American models of McDojos, contracts, blackbelt clubs and 5 year old Dan grades.
I've posted this before but I teach TSD, it's hard to get soldiers (big hairy arsed paras and Guardsmen etc) to take TSD seriously because they equate it with the stuff they have seen on the Olympics, now you really don't want their opinion on it trust me. They won't even look at what we do, a good many of them are martial artists with grades in karate, judo, JKD and proper TKD.
When we see TKD here it's in the ITC gym being done by the Gurkhas as part of their military training, the Gurkhas put the fierceness into TKD. I imagine it's much like the original Korean 'killing art' and yet here's people asking me to take the Olympic TKD seriously. I don't know if you can see the funny side of that! Perhaps you have to see the Gurkhas spar first then compare it to the Olympic stuff. They do a very good pattern by the way with the Kukri.

I was only half joking about sending money btw, we are busy fund raising for the Help For Heroes charity as they are going to be building a rehab centre here for injured servicepeople. I'd rather people sent it to them though!
 

miguksaram

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A lot of people seem to share this opinion. I do not. Consider the knee vs. the head. The contact surface of each target is shaped differently and is of different size and different vantage point from a person facing another straight on. It seems obvious to me that your kicking method will therefore also be different.

You get good at what you practice. If you want to be competent at kicking the head, practice kicking the head. If you want to be good at hitting a knee, practice kicking the knee. Or do both. But don't think that just because you are good at hitting the head, that means you are good elsewhere. That's a fallacy.

I can see where you are coming from on this, but isn't the basic mechanics the same in execution regardless of the target? The difference being the height of the target. Now where I do see some faults with my own philosophy is the fact that when kicking to the head you use a different striking surface as opposed to kickinig lower. Example I might use instep round kick to the head and more ball of the foot towards the knee.
 

dancingalone

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I can see where you are coming from on this, but isn't the basic mechanics the same in execution regardless of the target? The difference being the height of the target. Now where I do see some faults with my own philosophy is the fact that when kicking to the head you use a different striking surface as opposed to kickinig lower. Example I might use instep round kick to the head and more ball of the foot towards the knee.

I'm no doctor, but surely the different muscle groups and ligaments are worked differently depending on the height you kick at even if it is the same technique? I'm a believer in reproduction. Execute a sidekick perfectly 100,000 times waist-level and you might have a good chance of performing something similar when you need to, muscles cold while on the streets. The more variables you introduce, the more different each discrete technique will be, meaning the more repetitions needed to ingrain it into muscle memory.
 

Daniel Sullivan

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I'm no doctor, but surely the different muscle groups and ligaments are worked differently depending on the height you kick at even if it is the same technique? I'm a believer in reproduction. Execute a sidekick perfectly 100,000 times waist-level and you might have a good chance of performing something similar when you need to, muscles cold while on the streets. The more variables you introduce, the more different each discrete technique will be, meaning the more repetitions needed to ingrain it into muscle memory.
Generally, I have found that the height of the kick does affect how it is executed in a general sense. If you are kicking about waist level most of the time, low kicks are not be a problem in my experience. I have spent a lot more time kicking waist high than head high, and low kicks have not been a difficult adaptaion for me, particularly with regards to front or side kicks. Turning kicks required the most adjustment.

The major issues with predominantly high kicks in practice are that first, you are not warmed up and stretched out in an SD scenario, and secondly (and more importantly), street clothes and shoes affect your kicking dynamic quite a bit, often prohibiting high kicks at all.

I still feel that a skilled taekwondoist can adapt his or her kicks according to the situation that they are in, at least to enough of an extent that they can use their kicks effectively in the real world.

Daniel
 

dancingalone

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If you are kicking about waist level most of the time, low kicks are not be a problem in my experience.

The flexibility issue aside, I simply believe targets are distinct, requiring different technique and striking surfaces. The roundhouse kick to temple may be best struck with the instep, while the floating rib (if you're determined to use a roundhouse kick - I would favor the side kick) may be best damaged with the ball of the foot. How about the groin with the front kick. Would you use the ball of the foot or the instep in a scooping motion? I would favor the latter choice.

It's not a simple matter of saying I can kick high, so I can kick low. I teach my students to respect each target and to train accordingly with repetitions and even weapon conditioning if need be.
 

Daniel Sullivan

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The flexibility issue aside, I simply believe targets are distinct, requiring different technique and striking surfaces. The roundhouse kick to temple may be best struck with the instep, while the floating rib (if you're determined to use a roundhouse kick - I would favor the side kick) may be best damaged with the ball of the foot. How about the groin with the front kick. Would you use the ball of the foot or the instep in a scooping motion? I would favor the latter choice.
A lot would depend upon my selection of footwear. Certain shoes make kicking with the ball of the foot more difficult. Other footwear choices afford little protection to the instep.

Generally, a front or side kick waist level or below will be more appropriate in SD, but certainly any kick can have an application.

It's not a simple matter of saying I can kick high, so I can kick low. I teach my students to respect each target and to train accordingly with repetitions and even weapon conditioning if need be.
A good practice, and one that we do in hapkido.

Certainly, I do not fully subscribe to the 'I can kick high, so I can kick low' line of reasoning; it is true from a flexibility standpoint, but there are other factors as well.

On the other hand, we are talking about kicking. Most people have little difficulty kicking low because the skills are developed in various ball sports that most kids play. Also, like punching, low kicks are fairly inutitive; nobody needs any special training to kick an opponent in the groin. Kicks are not exactly rocket science either, so the idea that the sport taekwondoist, who spends a great deal of time kicking, cannot adapt his or her kicks fairly easily simply does not hold water in my estimation.

The biggest issue that a sport taekwondoist will face in the real world is lack of real time defense against being grabbed when they kick. This is a much bigger problem than the difference in kicking dynamics between low and high kicks, and one with greater consequences as well.

Daniel
 
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