xing yi and bare-knuckle boxing

[westernwarrior]

Originally posted by lhommedieu
I agree: Xing Yi Quan and Bare-Knuckle fighting have a lot in common. I've seen one guy (also an internal boxer) who can "switch over" to the bare-knuckle style effortlessly if you ask him. That's because the principles are pretty much the same.

This was posted in the boxing thread and it interested me. I've always had an interest in bare-knuckle boxing, and I thought it would be enlightening to see if anyone else could tell me about some of the similarities. I'd be interested.

 

[arnisador]

What very little I've seen of Xing Yi hasn't given me that impression. Any one else have thoughts on this?

 

[yilisifu]

I'd have to agree. The principles aren't the same at all, nor is the footwork...

 

[lhommedieu]

It depends on what you mean by "principles" and "footwork." Also: who's doing the fighting?

I posted the original quote so perhaps I should clarify my statement. I don't see much of a distinction between "bare knuckle" fighting and Xing Yi as long as the "bare knuckle" fighter uses the same internal principles. This would mean using the whole body to generate power, using sketetal structure and angling to create the best line of attack and defense, the use of forward pressure, and changing sides of the body while moving. A fighter may not necessarily explicitly understand "rise, drill, fall, and return" to instinctively apply these principles - but it can happen nonetheless. In terms of footwork, Xing Yi's "chicken step" is essentially a step-through designed to facilitate the principles listed above, which can (and should) occur in any bare knuckle fighting tradition, irrespective of its particular tradition.

I've experienced good Xing Yi but have seen one good bare knuckle fighter, so don't take my statements as gospel. One similarilty which struck me, however, was the use of turning the spine to effect short power with uppercuts (as with Tsuan Quan and Hung Quan), as well as the principle of not collapsing forward pressure (i.e., keeping the arms extended throughout a movement) while attacking. Granted, the bare knuckle figher in question is in fact an internal boxer: my original statement was merely that he showed me how easy it was (for him) to switch from one style to another as long as the underlying principles remained the same.

Best,

Steve Lamade

 

[Matt Stone]

When I was training with nbcdecon in Japan (he was teaching me Modern Arnis, and I was teaching him Yiliquan), he developed a strong interest in bareknuckle boxing and catch as catch can wrestling. So much so that he invested a pretty sizeable sum in some rare and out of print books and manuals penned by some of the bigger names in those fields.

One night, he was showing me some of the methods that a bareknuckle fighter would use to tire out his opponent's arms. He explained that head shots were rare (being bareknuckled, you ran just as good a chance of injuring yourself as injuring your opponent), and since throws were legal (that was originally how a round was called - the round ended when someone got thrown), it was vital to lower your opponent's defenses to get in close enough to effect the takedown.

When nbcdecon showed me some of the punching methods, along with the way they held their hands in a ready position, I was immediately struck at how similar the techniques were to classical tsuan punches. There were other minor things that reminded me of other positions, but I can't really recall the specifics right now.

The range of motion of the body is finite. Replication of movement is inevitable, and my personal opinion is that some of what was taught in bareknuckle boxing was very similar to techniques of Xingyi. They are by no means the same arts, but the similarities are interesting.

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[KennethKu]

Originally posted by lhommedieu
..... I don't see much of a distinction between "bare knuckle" fighting and Xing Yi as long as the "bare knuckle" fighter uses the same internal principles. This would mean using the whole body to generate power, using sketetal structure and angling to create the best line of attack and defense, the use of forward pressure, and changing sides of the body while moving. .....

If those methods are "internal", then many people have been practicing "internal boxing" all along. It is just that they don't call it that.

 

[lhommedieu]

That was my original point - thank you.

 

[arnisador]

Thread moved.

-Arnisador
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