World Tae Kwon Do Juniors to be held in Egypt?

[Master Dan]

Last I was told WTF is going to hold the World Juniors in Egypt? While it may be up to adults to do as they please how can parents guardians consider sending youth especially Americans to that region? They are killing people over soccer games I know its more than that but even so. Going into harms way is a violation of basic MA commen sense? This was 30 days ago maybe its old news and given recent events maybe things have been changed?

 

[granfire]

Good God, really?

That is not a place you go to at this time. Let alone send your kids to for a sport competition.

Serious lack of judgment.

And I though Tijuana was a bad idea.

 

[Master Dan]

Last I was told WTF is going to hold the World Juniors in Egypt? While it may be up to adults to do as they please how can parents guardians consider sending youth especially Americans to that region? They are killing people over soccer games I know its more than that but even so. Going into harms way is a violation of basic MA commen sense? This was 30 days ago maybe its old news and given recent events maybe things have been changed?

I have been busy but last word I had few weeks ago our national NGB supported trials here for this event and I know of Master Parents intending on taking thier kids?? You would think given the last two weeks in news it would change?? Like I said maybe this is old news and everything has changed but nothing I know of as yet need to check USAT website?

 

[granfire]

I have been busy but last word I had few weeks ago our national NGB supported trials here for this event and I know of Master Parents intending on taking thier kids?? You would think given the last two weeks in news it would change?? Like I said maybe this is old news and everything has changed but nothing I know of as yet need to check USAT website?

One should certainly hope so. It is unwise beyond words to travel there for pleasure atm.

What is it with these TKD organizations? Tijuana... Egypt....can't they find something like Gulfshores? But they'd probably go during spring break!

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Right now Americans in Egypt who represent aid organizations have been arrested and are being held. Previous college students were arrested and held. (though I think have been released) Common sence would indicate not to go there right now!

 

[puunui]

This is a situation that requires expert advice, whether to send a team or not. I would contact the US State Department about what they think. The tournament is two or two and a half months away. No sense getting hysterical right now. But I do agree that it is something that should get looked into.

Soccer fans are I think much more violent than the typical taekwondo fan. Generally, when it is hosted in that sort of country, there are very few spectators so the probability of something occurring is small, unlike at a soccer match with packed stadiums.

I think it was 90 or 91, the US chose not to send a team to World Cup Taekwondo because of the instability of Croatia I think at the time. That was the only time USA did not send a team to a WTF International Event.

I do understand that for certain events in certain countries, there were armed escorts for the USA team. I remember a US International Referee made a call which I believe disqualified a local player from the host country. They plaster the IRs face all over the local TV. The IR I believe was advised to leave the country.

So I do believe we should look into it closely, and seek out expert advice on the matter. But I don't think it's time to hit the panic button just yet.

 

[mastercole]

I think it was 90 or 91, the US chose not to send a team to World Cup Taekwondo because of the instability of Croatia I think at the time. That was the only time USA did not send a team to a WTF International Event.

Yes, that instability turned into an all out war in 1991. Just a few years after that war ended, the US Team finally went to Croatia to the 1st World Taekwondo Olympic Qualifier, I was head of team for the USA on that trip.
In Zagreb we walked across the tarmac to new terminal, past the old terminal that had been bombed by the Serbian Air Force. It was still barely standing, burnt and shattered. Then we passed concrete bunkers where inside you could see destroyed fighter jets still sitting there.

The jet that was to fly us from Zagreb to the Adriatic shore town of Pula broke down, so I called the Croatian Taekwondo Federation for assistance. They sent a tennis pro and a military driver to drive us from Zagreb across the Balkan mountains to Istra on the Adriatic. As we drove though towns West of Zagreb, we could see were some homes had been strafed by heavy machine gun fire, and some had a huge tank shell or RPG hole in the front with no roof or windows. The tennis pro told me that the Serbs would keep the people in the homes at gun point, turn on the gas, go back to the street and fire a shell into the home destroying it and killing everyone inside.

After the 5 hour trip, we arrive on the other side of the Balkans to what looked like paradise, war had not reached Istra. It was vineyards and olive orchards and an azure blue Adriatic sea.

I guess I could add this statement to the value of Kukkiwon certification thread

 

[puunui]

Yes, that instability turned into an all out war in 1991. Just a few years after that war ended, the US Team finally went to Croatia to the 1st World Taekwondo Olympic Qualifier, I was head of team for the USA on that trip.
In Zagreb we walked across the tarmac to new terminal, past the old terminal that had been bombed by the Serbian Air Force. It was still barely standing, burnt and shattered. Then we passed concrete bunkers where inside you could see destroyed fighter jets still sitting there.

The jet that was to fly us from Zagreb to the Adriatic shore town of Pula broke down, so I called the Croatian Taekwondo Federation for assistance. They sent a tennis pro and a military driver to drive us from Zagreb across the Balkan mountains to Istra on the Adriatic. As we drove though towns West of Zagreb, we could see were some homes had been strafed by heavy machine gun fire, and some had a huge tank shell or RPG hole in the front with no roof or windows. The tennis pro told me that the Serbs would keep the people in the homes at gun point, turn on the gas, go back to the street and fire a shell into the home destroying it and killing everyone inside.

After the 5 hour trip, we arrive on the other side of the Balkans to what looked like paradise, war had not reached Istra. It was vineyards and olive orchards and an azure blue Adriatic sea.

I guess I could add this statement to the value of Kukkiwon certification thread

I remember you telling me about that trip afterwards, about cruising through the Croatia countryside in a military truck (deuce and a half I want to say), seeing all the bombed out buildings and homes. I want to say that the tournament venue was right near the italian border and the food was awesome. I have this picture in my head of team members sitting around outside of a cafe eating terrific food after qualifying spots for the 2000 Sydney Games. Maybe you can do that again, for 2016, if things work out. A lot of big seniors attended that Olympic World Qualifier event, making some high level decisions, while you got to watch and learn.

 

[mastercole]

I do understand that for certain events in certain countries, there were armed escorts for the USA team. I remember a US International Referee made a call which I believe disqualified a local player from the host country. They plaster the IRs face all over the local TV. The IR I believe was advised to leave the country.

That was a crazy situation in Turkey, that almost got out of hand. As a matter of fact, there was a bomb threat made against the venue as well, and the whole US team had to be taken down into the basement and guarded. Yes, pasting the IR picture (who you and I both know) all over the media was horrible thing to do. AND identifying him as an American.

In 2010 I had to cancel our participation in an IOC sponsored Junior event in Bahrain (middle east). Through research I found out that the campus where the US team was to dorm was having some conflicts between secular students and the Muslim Brotherhood. To the point where they would show up at events on campus, break music players slap people around and make threats. I got the feeling they would not take kindly to American's hanging out around campus.

So Glenn is 100% correct, look into things closely, check with the State Department, get online and watch chatter.

 

[mastercole]

I remember you telling me about that trip afterwards, about cruising through the Croatia countryside in a military truck (deuce and a half I want to say), seeing all the bombed out buildings and homes. I want to say that the tournament venue was right near the italian border and the food was awesome. I have this picture in my head of team members sitting around outside of a cafe eating terrific food after qualifying spots for the 2000 Sydney Games. Maybe you can do that again, for 2016, if things work out. A lot of big seniors attended that Olympic World Qualifier event, making some high level decisions, while you got to watch and learn.

It was very close to Trieste, Italy. GM Dae Sung Lee some others and myself were riding Vespas North on the Adriatic to the remnants of the Venetian Empire, where people still lived in those medieval homes, then heading up the hills along the coast toward Trieste. It was beautiful.

Venice, Italy was about 2 hours by boat, so of course I had to at least visit Venice before I die, so we took the whole team to Venice for the whole day.

Yes, the food was fantastic, the people were fantastic, the seniors were awesome, everything was fantastic, . That trip is etched into my memory forever.

Hey, remember that guy that we knew from the internet, back in the 90's, he was Croatian? I think I told you we met there in Porec, he came to watch the event! What was his name?

 

[granfire]

This is a situation that requires expert advice, whether to send a team or not. I would contact the US State Department about what they think. The tournament is two or two and a half months away. No sense getting hysterical right now. But I do agree that it is something that should get looked into.

Soccer fans are I think much more violent than the typical taekwondo fan. Generally, when it is hosted in that sort of country, there are very few spectators so the probability of something occurring is small, unlike at a soccer match with packed stadiums.

I think it was 90 or 91, the US chose not to send a team to World Cup Taekwondo because of the instability of Croatia I think at the time. That was the only time USA did not send a team to a WTF International Event.

I do understand that for certain events in certain countries, there were armed escorts for the USA team. I remember a US International Referee made a call which I believe disqualified a local player from the host country. They plaster the IRs face all over the local TV. The IR I believe was advised to leave the country.

So I do believe we should look into it closely, and seek out expert advice on the matter. But I don't think it's time to hit the panic button just yet.

Prior to the conflict that broke up Yugoslavia people thought it was soccer violence as well when all hell broke lose at a stadium during a game. Later I suppose everybody should have figured out the problems ran much deeper.

Egypt is currently in civil unrest. If you got any brains, you stay away.

if the organizers have any brains, they find a new venue.

Egypt - even to the laymen like me - is right now not a tourist destination.

 

[mastercole]

Prior to the conflict that broke up Yugoslavia people thought it was soccer violence as well when all hell broke lose at a stadium during a game. Later I suppose everybody should have figured out the problems ran much deeper.

Egypt is currently in civil unrest. If you got any brains, you stay away.

if the organizers have any brains, they find a new venue.

Egypt - even to the laymen like me - is right now not a tourist destination.

There is a reason why international sports federations of the IOC tend to hold events in nations that have instability, or are recovering from instability.

Anyone want to answer?

 

[Archtkd]

Last I was told WTF is going to hold the World Juniors in Egypt? While it may be up to adults to do as they please how can parents guardians consider sending youth especially Americans to that region? They are killing people over soccer games I know its more than that but even so. Going into harms way is a violation of basic MA commen sense? This was 30 days ago maybe its old news and given recent events maybe things have been changed?

Bigger policy issues are always at play on things like this, but I think the World Taekwondo Federation (WTF) is making a mistake with this one, from a safety and public relations point of view.

Some background: Egypt attracts international WTF events because it’s the seat of the Africa Taekwondo Union (AFTU). That continental taekwondo body, with more than 40 member nations, is led by Gen. Ahmed El-Fouly, who also happens to be a vice president of the World Taekwondo Federation. Gen. Fouly was and remains one of WTF President Chungwon Choue's big supporters. Choue has big ambitions to expand taekwondo in African and Arab countries and believes he can do so with the support of Egypt, the Arab world's biggest nation, which also is one of Africa’s biggest countries.

Those are some of the reason Egypt hosted the Olympic taekwondo qualifier tournament for the Africa region about a month ago. Folks I know on the Kenya national team, which went there, say things were mainly OK. The WTF World Poomsae Championships were also held there in 2009 and went OK. Many other international taekwondo events have been held in Egypt with no problems.

Going forward, though, it’s not clear that Egypt can continue hosting trouble-free international taekwondo events, or hide the ways it has maintained peace in the past. To a large extent, Egypt was able to promote taekwondo in Africa and the Arab world because it’s military made sure things went smoothly. The civilian revolts, which led to the ouster of strongman Hosni Mubarak last year and the continuing mayhem in the country could be signs that Gen. El-Fouly and his military friends can no longer guarantee safety for international athletes. If they manage to keep events secure they will likely have to resort to methods that the WTF and peace-loving nations might want to distance themselves from.
　
　
　

 

[granfire]

There is a reason why international sports federations of the IOC tend to hold events in nations that have instability, or are recovering from instability.

Anyone want to answer?

thin out the base?

Not quiet getting your drift.

A year ago I think Egypt would have been not bad, 3 years ago I am sure it was just fine.

 

[Master Dan]

thin out the base?

Not quiet getting your drift.

A year ago I think Egypt would have been not bad, 3 years ago I am sure it was just fine.

I understand the politics (Money) behind countries being selected to host but this is Juniors not adults I cannot believe the ego of any parent/master that would put minor's at risk going to that region. It should be up to the WTF to take the temptation away from those to weak to make a good decision and move it and certainly far enough in advance that people can plan thier travel expenses? If something happens like the Munic Olympics or not even that organized suicide bomber what ever and a kid gets hurt it shows bad judgment all around.

 

[puunui]

Spoke with a coach whose athlete made junior team this year. We discussed the Egypt situation and he said that USAT is communicating with the State Department about this. The event is in a tourist area, with may or may not have more protection and/or more or less probability of attack. So it is being considered, to the credit of USAT.

PS: The decision to host World Juniors in Egypt this year was not based on "money".

 

[elder999]

There is a reason why international sports federations of the IOC tend to hold events in nations that have instability, or are recovering from instability.

Anyone want to answer?

 

[puunui]

Hey, remember that guy that we knew from the internet, back in the 90's, he was Croatian? I think I told you we met there in Porec, he came to watch the event! What was his name?

I think his name was Kazim Terzic. His nickname was "Cosmo" and he was living in Hamberg, Germany back then.

 

[mastercole]

I think his name was Kazim Terzic. His nickname was "Cosmo" and he was living in Hamberg, Germany back then.

That's him. I have a picture somewhere together with him out in front of the venue in Croatia.

 

[granfire]

Spoke with a coach whose athlete made junior team this year. We discussed the Egypt situation and he said that USAT is communicating with the State Department about this. The event is in a tourist area, with may or may not have more protection and/or more or less probability of attack. So it is being considered, to the credit of USAT.

PS: The decision to host World Juniors in Egypt this year was not based on "money".

So they have some braincells among the lot to rub together.

But seriously, that they are 'working with the state department' is still a joke.

The comparison to Munich lacks tho...Germany was pretty darn safe in 72. Egypt in 2012? Not so much.