Why has British fighting culture since the 19th Century Has been stereotyped as being"Fists Only"?

SlamDunkerista

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Inspired by the discovery that Savate subforum of Reddit has been adopted by a new mod and is no longer restricted. Last time I visited the sub its been a year since the last post as made.

Now a stereotype so common in the martial arts world is that the Brits (and by extension her former white colonies like Australia and the USA) is that disdain using the legs in fighting is an ungentlemanly and cowardly and that real men use their fist (and maybe arms if they learn a bit of wrestling). And that English speaking fight instructors esp n London always emphasize leg techniques as something you shouldn't do because of the high risk of many dangers particularly losing balance esp kicking (but not just that but sweeps and knees and general leg movements). So the cliche is that British fighting approach as still with the arms esp fists because they are the quickest, most practical, and most of all least risky approach to fighting.

I wrote this months ago


And the stuff I mentioned including references to Barton-Wright (founder of Bartitsu, the real life martial art Sherlock Holme's fighting style as based on) in the link pretty much dispel the clihe of British culture intrinsically scoffing down on kicking as a myth.

ANd I'm not counting multiple discussions other posters made before I jned rddit including one person's article mentioning that British wrestling uses traps and other leg techniques in a twisted irony of the British martial arts perception that they only strike with fists and also sending out observations of the paradox that the French Savate is basically the earliest organized form of Kckboxing while at the same type French wrestling is completely based o upper body techniques and the most popular style created in France Greco-Roman wrestling would become the dominant approach today used in international competition. And another poster pointing out evidence of Savate in ancient Gaul in another sub and so much more.

But I rally have to ask why did the UK got this stereotype of fistcuffs only? Forget the hooligan fights my Scottish Grandma witnessed as a young girl in London. Barton-Wright mentions numerous times that many British gentlemen fool themselves into thinking their weekend warrior training in Boxing is enough to handle anything on the streets and he mentions more than thrice of young British middle class guys getting cocky and talking out in the slums at night, participating in the escalation of social situations into violence, and then getting quickly taken out by soccer-loving poor British manual laborers who it several kicks on the leg quickly knck the young cocky Gentlemen down, if not outright break their legs in the process before these Gentlemen could even throw a jab jab straight combos.

My grandma may have immigrated from Scotland to London by her teens, but she tells me of stores of her other relatives who migrated to England t and were sending paycheck for her family by mail............... That generations earlier her own grand uncle (born in 1878) who was living in Liverpool at 15 got involved in a protest turned into riot at a factory in and as jailed because he kicked a policeman in the stomach and then jumped on a table and did a flying vertical kick midair at another policeman and KO'd him too before 3 more policeman sucker hit him with a bat. Add how he learned to do Kung Fu movie style strikes? He practically played Football almost all his freetime at this age.

Indeed you don't even have to search out martial arts specific literature or even read at all-even pop culture entertainment takng place in the 19th century like the recent The English Game on Netflix portray British commoners perfectly capable of using their legs for "cowardly striking".

But still I really have to ask why this stereotype of the Anglo Saxon world not just UK but former colonies is so ubiquitous n international eyes?

I mean starat peekng out articles from this Website.

Australian Savate Homepage

Which is the oldest still running collection of articles on Savate on the World Wide Web (though another Savateur from Canada told me on Discord the site creator had to move it to Wordpress from the original Web Domain because it was getting costly). Its a webste considered so much of a ell done archive on the subject that Britannica Encyclopedia even gave it an Award as seen on the front Page.

You'll immediately find the mentions of Charles Charlemont's legendary fight with British Boxer Jerry Driscoll and the proof of supremacy over regular Boxing and various contemporary statements from French professors criticizing the limitation of British fistfighting.

Even the Bartitsu Society (one of the fe websites on Sherlock Holme's styles that continually gets updated) rote an article criticizing the French of cheating in this bout as well as various diatribes criticizing not just Boxing but also Savate as being useless for general self-defense some which already mentioned in the linked Football post on this sub).

And don't get me started on Europeans VS Chinese Styles and other internatonal proto-MMA competitions where the Brits are almost always represented by a strictly boxing fighter (with the occasional crosstraining into wrestling prizfighter in the tournament).........

I really have to ask why did the UK get this stigma so attached to their fighting culture esp before Bruce Lee's international popularity? And why so many mainstream instructors who are easily accessble to Middle Class Brits seem to reinforce this cliche in the UK from the 19th century all the way post WWII?

Not only as afull well-rounded styles restricted to the British aristocarcy and military as fa as tutelage goes (which despite the vocal fighting sports journalism of Britain opposed at the time, commonly crosstrained in Savate and pick and mixed techniques from across not just Savate and the rest of the Europe but even contemporary Asian stuff)?

It got so ridiculous that I remember a website where they referenced Newspapers criticizing Bartitsu for using dirty tricks and being crudely brutal!

Yet....... As I mentioned multple times on my other post and even in this topic right now the poor working class in Brits not only had no qualms about using "sissy kicking" but a surprising number of commoners threw strikes ith genuine power and even refined tecniques because of playng England's most beloved sport at home and even at the factory during break time.

Hell forget Soccer Football..... Parts of Rural England has this sport!!!!!!!

Shin-kicking - Wikipedia

So you don't need soccer or rugby to see commoner Brits knew about kicking as a thing to be done in brawls as they had Shin Kicking and other Bizarre sports across the rural country that makes you go WTF!!!!!!

So honestly, why did Britain get the stereotypes of being the nation that only fights with your fists? Esp since the aristocracy and military trained in MMA styles and in fencing schools that made heavy use of leg techniques (in addition to taking bits of various styles from Savate and rest of Europe as contemporary Chinese and Japanese styles)? And moreso since the commoners use leg strikes all the time refined from playng games like Shin-kicking and esp Football?

And why did the existing fight clubs seek to reinforce that image for decades on the international scene? I mean noticeable the lack of British wrestlers in pre-UFC MMA cross country bouts is staggering and its as though British fight organizations were intentionally restricting their pool of warriors from the Boxing gyms!

Where as other countriessent out fighters from different styles. I already mentoned France and Savate (who managed to score some victories against Chinese and Japanese fighters) but the Germans had sent some wrestlers in these international bouts with mixed results in addition to boxers and fighters who trained in both. Russian fighters ere known to do an MMA approach even though they came from specialized backgrounds like fencing. Spain has a long history of testing different eapons against countries near the coloies in duels.

So I have to ask why British fight culture came to be this way (and in turn the stereotype also got latched onto America, Canada, and other former colonies)? Despite the fact that majority of England in the 19th and early 20th century and even all the way up until today played in a sport completely revolving around kicking a ball (which also happens to be the most popular sport in the world) while the Britis military always borrowed bits and pieces of fighting styles and even discounting crosstraining and foreign influence, British nobility practised fencing styles heavily incorporating sweeps, trips, and other leg movements and also picked up the latest cool looking fads like Barttsu?
 
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lklawson

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Wow, that's a long post to ask a short question.

But the short question is why did the UK get this stereotype of fistcuffs only despite lots of evidence to the contrary.

The short answer is in two parts. First, because of uptight, morally superior, Victorian do-gooder busy-bodies. Second, because of the classic British cultural competition with France.

First there was a bunch of Victorian era do-gooders who thought they were morally superior and wanted to impose their vision of anti-violence (which rounded up everything from self defense through any martial sport they thought was "too violent"). This impacted most civilian martial arts and sports at the time, pushing them to become "less violent" and more sportive and, supposedly, "safe." There were a lot of writing in period defending English Boxing as safe. There was also shift in how Singlestick, saber, quaterstaff, and cane-type arts were presented to the public, all in an effort to mollify the very vocal "moral" crusaders (who still haven't stopped even to this day - and they didn't restrict themselves to England or to martial arts, look at the U.S.'s own Carrie Nation).

Then there was the long-running England vs. France feelings (still not entirely stamped out). This particularly showed up in Boxing vs. Savate matches, a few of them quite famous; Boxing being thought of as natively English and Savate being thought of as natively French. It's easy to see how a "fists only" idea could be drawn.

Of course it's inaccurate, as most stereotypes are.
 

Gyakuto

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Kicking ones enemy is not gentlemanly as they should be treated with respect. Footwear is dirty and dog excrement and even horse manure may be smudged onto their face. This is neither chivalrous nor hygienic. When I am attacked on the street, I quickly remove my footwear, use an antibacterial wipe upon my feet (even though my valet washes them with rose water, every hour, on the hour) and them dispatch my assailant, allowing them full access to antibacterial wipes as he bleeds into the gutter. This is how we do things in England 😑
 

Gyakuto

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One can, but a gentleman chooses not to lest they become scuffed 😑
 

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