Women Self Defence!

Status
Not open for further replies.

Tez3

Sr. Grandmaster
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
Messages
27,357
Reaction score
4,655
Location
England

drop bear

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
21,069
Reaction score
5,938
It is actually a masculine name which is also used for females.

I think you are slightly missing the point, women don't choose to train under a female martial arts instructor because they have suffered attacks but because they most likely know the problems, weaknesses and strengths better. No you don't chose a cardiologist because they have had a cardiac event but neither do you choose a cardiologist when you actually need a midwife.

No one is 'seething' at male instructors, nor is anyone expecting them to be telepathic. male instructors are seeking to improve their teaching to females, so we need to help them by telling them what we need if we know and many female students don't.

Taking training as you find it may seem a good idea but indiscriminate training by students who think they can fix things themselves is probably not the way to go forward. Like learning from videos you can get a couple of techniques just about right but just about may prove not enough.

This is also why men should avoid female instructors.
 

drop bear

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
21,069
Reaction score
5,938
Actually it's kill, marry, avoid.

Your left is right leaning I'm afraid, we've been the way we are for many centuries, millennia even before the US came along. My garden wall is older the USA. Our right isn't left at all just more moderate than your right. As for describing me as a UK modern feminist, you are incorrect, at 64 I'm not what Americans call a feminist which is usually an insult. If you mean I campaign for equal rights, no FGM, no child marriages etc then yes I do, along with my 10 million sisters in WAGGGS.
The FB comment is a nice bit of anti Semitism against Zuckerberg who a film asserted used it to get 'non Jewish girls'. It's usually quite nasty about Jewish women btw the reasons given why he didn't want a Jewish woman.

I always think it's say that so many don't appreciate irony, sarcasm and other forms of wit that many think is actually 'taking offence'. The written piece about 'Samurai women' I will leave to @Chris Parker to confirm or correct but frankly the writing itself was of primary school grade hence my amusement of the grading 1-10 being an 11. Think about it.
 

Tez3

Sr. Grandmaster
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
Messages
27,357
Reaction score
4,655
Location
England
What is snog?


Having a snog is just kissing and cuddling, tongues optional.


The programme DB posted up is a very strange one, where you just sit with your mouth open going 'WTF'.
 

oftheherd1

Senior Master
Joined
May 12, 2011
Messages
4,685
Reaction score
817
Dont mind Tez, i have come to the conclusion she is a UK modern feminist.(but maybe doesnt know it) from what i gather it is a left leaning majority over there. even their "Right" is left.
i wonder how many people know facebook started as a way to rate hot college girls. but yet no one will boycott or say anything about it. rating hot women is a thing. its actually something women do to guys too, so lets not get all "holier than thou" about it.
however 1 though 10 is old fashion. now we have "kill, marry, F*@%"

Interesting conclusion. I tend to be quite conservative. I realize Tez3 is more liberal than I am. That is her right. More than that, reading her posts and conversing with her on them tends to give me an interesting perspective on things, Agree with her or not. She has never been impolite with me. Of course, I try not to give her any reason to be.

For anyone new to MT who might read this, do be assured Tez3 is not timid. She can be as opinionated as anyone else, and will defend herself. She will normally do it politely unless she feels personally attacked. Then don your flame suit and stand back. :)

The above is my opinion. Anyone may agree or disagree, as many often do.
 

Tez3

Sr. Grandmaster
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
Messages
27,357
Reaction score
4,655
Location
England
A very good course of study if you want to understand violence against women. It's a serious academic course from the University of Strathclyde, a very good reputable Scottish seat of learning. Understanding should hopefully lead to interested instructors formulate their teaching strategies for women's self defence classes.

Understanding Violence Against Women - Online Course
 

hoshin1600

Senior Master
Joined
May 16, 2014
Messages
3,005
Reaction score
1,472
A very good course of study if you want to understand violence against women. It's a serious academic course from the University of Strathclyde, a very good reputable Scottish seat of learning. Understanding should hopefully lead to interested instructors formulate their teaching strategies for women's self defence classes.
assuming you know the content, can you give some teasers and take aways from this?
 

Tez3

Sr. Grandmaster
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
Messages
27,357
Reaction score
4,655
Location
England
assuming you know the content, can you give some teasers and take aways from this?


'Teasers'? It's a university (not college) course not a fictional television series.

"What topics will you cover?
  • Key concepts Gender, Power and Violence
  • Defining and explaining Violence Against Women
  • Impact of Violence Against Women from a range of perspectives
  • Media and Cultural representations of Violence Against Women
  • Public and Professional responses to Violence Against Women
  • Preventing Violence Against Women national and international approaches"
 

Gerry Seymour

MT Moderator
Staff member
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2012
Messages
27,310
Reaction score
8,668
Location
Hendersonville, NC
A very good course of study if you want to understand violence against women. It's a serious academic course from the University of Strathclyde, a very good reputable Scottish seat of learning. Understanding should hopefully lead to interested instructors formulate their teaching strategies for women's self defence classes.

Understanding Violence Against Women - Online Course
Is there nobody already developing those strategies?
 

Gerry Seymour

MT Moderator
Staff member
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2012
Messages
27,310
Reaction score
8,668
Location
Hendersonville, NC
'Teasers'? It's a university (not college) course not a fictional television series.

"What topics will you cover?
  • Key concepts Gender, Power and Violence
  • Defining and explaining Violence Against Women
  • Impact of Violence Against Women from a range of perspectives
  • Media and Cultural representations of Violence Against Women
  • Public and Professional responses to Violence Against Women
  • Preventing Violence Against Women national and international approaches"
From that synopsis, it sounds like a sociological approach (since it discusses societal prevention). How does it inform the individual looking to teach prevention and defense to individuals?
 

hoshin1600

Senior Master
Joined
May 16, 2014
Messages
3,005
Reaction score
1,472
From that synopsis, it sounds like a sociological approach (since it discusses societal prevention). How does it inform the individual looking to teach prevention and defense to individuals?
exactly.
 

hoshin1600

Senior Master
Joined
May 16, 2014
Messages
3,005
Reaction score
1,472
no offense but this college course sounds like a typical US and Canada women's studies course in the humanities. based on post modernism and Marxist thought. standard class warfare and the oppressed rhetoric.
so that is why i asked for some take away's that are relevant to actual self defense.


which leads me to a relevant concept, that us men who are interested in providing self defense instruction and are wanting to learn more about actually helping get turned off when there is a narrative that men are evil and the reason for oppression. it causes a back lash of negative emotion.
 

aedrasteia

Purple Belt
Joined
Oct 30, 2006
Messages
384
Reaction score
133
Is there nobody already developing those strategies?
sorry to be slow on replies - overwhelmed @work.
this (below) was a thread on MT previously:
maybe a Mod or other can link to that thread? thanks

Efficacy of a Sexual Assault Resistance Program for University Women
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsa1411131

There are many more all over the country.

All are comprehensive - not limited to strike, punch, kick and other techniques.
Because techniques are not remotely enough.
If other vital elements are absent, this instruction approach is almost worthless for the majority of girls and women because the most common form of assault/harassment is not a stranger-danger jump and grab.

Also - highly recommended:

https://www.amazon.com/Trauma-Aware-Self-Defense-Instruction-instructors-self-defense-ebook/dp

Trauma-Aware Self-Defense Instruction: How instructors can help maximize the benefits and minimize the risks of self-defense training for survivors of violence and trauma. Kindle Edition
by Anna Valdiserri

The NWMAF- National Women's Martial Arts Federation has a SDforWomen certification for instructors

National Women's Martial Arts Federation - Instructor Certifications

Lynn Marie Wannamaker : the self defense paradox:

"One facet of this paradox is the fact that one person the perpetrator holds sole responsibility for the decision to assault someone.
The other is the fact that people at risk of violence can take effective steps to increase their own safety. Our programs are trauma-sensitive, attentive to the presence of survivors in any gathered community.

"Other hallmarks of empowerment-based self-defense training include:

Evidence-based information about who commits violent and sexual assaults and who they attempt to victimize.

Education about healthy relationships, including consent negotiation skills and early warning signs of interpersonal violence.

Examination of how culture and socialization may disadvantage women from being able to trust or act upon their instincts regarding interpersonal safety.

Opportunities to practice assertive communication that can be used to interrupt or de-escalate violent situations.

Physical fighting techniques that are simple to learn and effective when other options have been exhausted.


Healing and community organizing resources to recover from violence and increase safety for all people.

No tips and ideas are enough. Doing whats needed by actual women/girls in daily life requires re-wiring our/your thinking about women/girls and sexual assault and self protection.

I was hoping the Larry Nassar story could begin to do that. more later,
w/respect A
 

Gerry Seymour

MT Moderator
Staff member
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2012
Messages
27,310
Reaction score
8,668
Location
Hendersonville, NC
sorry to be slow on replies - overwhelmed @work.
this (below) was a thread on MT previously:
maybe a Mod or other can link to that thread? thanks

Efficacy of a Sexual Assault Resistance Program for University Women
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsa1411131

There are many more all over the country.

All are comprehensive - not limited to strike, punch, kick and other techniques.
Because techniques are not remotely enough.
If other vital elements are absent, this instruction approach is almost worthless for the majority of girls and women because the most common form of assault/harassment is not a stranger-danger jump and grab.

Also - highly recommended:

https://www.amazon.com/Trauma-Aware-Self-Defense-Instruction-instructors-self-defense-ebook/dp

Trauma-Aware Self-Defense Instruction: How instructors can help maximize the benefits and minimize the risks of self-defense training for survivors of violence and trauma. Kindle Edition
by Anna Valdiserri

The NWMAF- National Women's Martial Arts Federation has a SDforWomen certification for instructors

National Women's Martial Arts Federation - Instructor Certifications

Lynn Marie Wannamaker : the self defense paradox:

"One facet of this paradox is the fact that one person the perpetrator holds sole responsibility for the decision to assault someone.
The other is the fact that people at risk of violence can take effective steps to increase their own safety. Our programs are trauma-sensitive, attentive to the presence of survivors in any gathered community.

"Other hallmarks of empowerment-based self-defense training include:

Evidence-based information about who commits violent and sexual assaults and who they attempt to victimize.

Education about healthy relationships, including consent negotiation skills and early warning signs of interpersonal violence.

Examination of how culture and socialization may disadvantage women from being able to trust or act upon their instincts regarding interpersonal safety.

Opportunities to practice assertive communication that can be used to interrupt or de-escalate violent situations.

Physical fighting techniques that are simple to learn and effective when other options have been exhausted.

Healing and community organizing resources to recover from violence and increase safety for all people.

No tips and ideas are enough. Doing whats needed by actual women/girls in daily life requires re-wiring our/your thinking about women/girls and sexual assault and self protection.

I was hoping the Larry Nassar story could begin to do that. more later,
w/respect A
Thanks a TON! That's a lot of what appears to be really useful info. :)
 

Gerry Seymour

MT Moderator
Staff member
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2012
Messages
27,310
Reaction score
8,668
Location
Hendersonville, NC
No tips and ideas are enough. Doing whats needed by actual women/girls in daily life requires re-wiring our/your thinking about women/girls and sexual assault and self protection.
I agree. Tips and ideas are where the change starts. Part of that is what doesn't work. Part of that is what's actually working somewhere. And, of course, instructors have a lot of work to do (with themselves AND with their curriculum) to incorporate meaningful change if they want to serve this role (teaching SD specifically designed/intended for women).

I do still believe there are two views on this, and I'm okay with either - so long as neither side claims moral high ground over the other. One is that self-protection programs should include avoidance and information about how to deal with approaches other than a physical attack. The other is what I refer to as the "purse self-defense" that intends to deal with how to defend against a physical attack, and rarely strays from that. The latter is fine, so long as it doesn't claim to be more than it is. But if that's the case, it's probably not something that is well-suited to putting forth as a program specifically for women. I've taught self-defense to women, but only altering it as I would for anyone: accounting for physical advantages and limitations. What I'd like to do is educate myself enough (starting with information like this) to determine if I'm able to do more than that.
 

AngryHobbit

Senior Master
Joined
Dec 2, 2017
Messages
3,873
Reaction score
1,395
Location
North Carolina
sorry to be slow on replies - overwhelmed @work.
this (below) was a thread on MT previously:
maybe a Mod or other can link to that thread? thanks

Efficacy of a Sexual Assault Resistance Program for University Women
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsa1411131

There are many more all over the country.

All are comprehensive - not limited to strike, punch, kick and other techniques.
Because techniques are not remotely enough.
If other vital elements are absent, this instruction approach is almost worthless for the majority of girls and women because the most common form of assault/harassment is not a stranger-danger jump and grab.

Also - highly recommended:

https://www.amazon.com/Trauma-Aware-Self-Defense-Instruction-instructors-self-defense-ebook/dp

Trauma-Aware Self-Defense Instruction: How instructors can help maximize the benefits and minimize the risks of self-defense training for survivors of violence and trauma. Kindle Edition
by Anna Valdiserri

The NWMAF- National Women's Martial Arts Federation has a SDforWomen certification for instructors

National Women's Martial Arts Federation - Instructor Certifications

Lynn Marie Wannamaker : the self defense paradox:

"One facet of this paradox is the fact that one person the perpetrator holds sole responsibility for the decision to assault someone.
The other is the fact that people at risk of violence can take effective steps to increase their own safety. Our programs are trauma-sensitive, attentive to the presence of survivors in any gathered community.

"Other hallmarks of empowerment-based self-defense training include:

Evidence-based information about who commits violent and sexual assaults and who they attempt to victimize.

Education about healthy relationships, including consent negotiation skills and early warning signs of interpersonal violence.

Examination of how culture and socialization may disadvantage women from being able to trust or act upon their instincts regarding interpersonal safety.

Opportunities to practice assertive communication that can be used to interrupt or de-escalate violent situations.

Physical fighting techniques that are simple to learn and effective when other options have been exhausted.

Healing and community organizing resources to recover from violence and increase safety for all people.

No tips and ideas are enough. Doing whats needed by actual women/girls in daily life requires re-wiring our/your thinking about women/girls and sexual assault and self protection.

I was hoping the Larry Nassar story could begin to do that. more later,
w/respect A
These are great - thank you so much!
 

aedrasteia

Purple Belt
Joined
Oct 30, 2006
Messages
384
Reaction score
133
Thanks a TON! That's a lot of what appears to be really useful info. :)

I'm very Glad you think so and I'm sorry to be off this thread so frequently. I work with abused and exploited seniors - another groups frequently ignored by everyone in 'self-protection'. But that's another (related) story.

In order to use the information I've shared, instructors here, who think they want to make changes must start with themselves. There are no shortcuts. No tweaking or adding a few bits to an existing martial arts class.

Unwillingness to acknowledge the reality of the most frequent threats and assaults and spend some serious time, over weeks and months, learning about that reality tells me something about their willingness to go deep on this stuff. And deep is what is required by reality girls/women face. The Nassar case is a real life example that is finally forcing people to take a painful look at that reality.

Just as we have to work over time to build competency in any area (like earning a belt) we have to learn and
it takes time. And very hard, uncomfortable work. First step is facing what really happens.

when I was asked by another MA based instructor (a good hearted gentleman) " what should I do first?" I asked "how long did it take to earn you BB in your style... 2 years? 5 years? Plan on spending a year or more getting barely competent here, at the very least. Too much time and commitment?
Consider the seriousness of what you say you want to do.

My goal is to be completely comfortable with every aspect of this - there will be nothing the girls/women must face that surprises me. Nothing I will be unable to consider. Nothing will confound me about their reactions. I may not know answers, but I know resources. Together they and I can figure out what works best for them and for me. Thats' because these assaults/harrassment, threats, intrusions and attacks have happened to me too. And my mother, my friends, my cousins. This is horrible but very familiar territory.

The first MA I was involved with was judo, taught be a Kodokan trained Japanese exchange guy working w/a very tough AFJA partner. I was only girl in a class of 12. Later I trained for a year in hard-style shuri-ryu karate and about another year in aikido. I was junior to a retired Marine who taught SD for women through a local YWCA. I was young.

And I then I walked away from exclusively MA based SD for girls and women. I knew it was enormously inadequate. By this time I had been working with SA/DV survivors and I had listened to the experiences of my mother, my friends, neighbors. I had to ask myself hard questions about their situations and what MA could offer them, yes a little, but not nearly enough.

I finally looked at my own experience and respected it. . I thought hard about how and when and by whom I had been scared, threatened, intimidated, harrassed, assaulted. MA skills were almost irrelevant to my real life. MA gave me some wonderful tools,, but not the ones I needed very often.

I needed so much more. So I invented it - working with other women/girls. We all invented what we needed. I'll always be grateful for MA training. But it only gave me confidence about doing some techniques.

I needed confidence in the right to set boundaries and and the skills enforce them, even with people "inside the circle" MA couldn't and wouldn't do anything about the social reality and framework I lived inside, because my life was invisible to almost all the men in MA. It still is, though that is slowIy, slowly changing. And there is more resistance and difficulty than i could handle on a regular basis.

I had to stick up for myself and what I knew I was really facing. I still do.
But that's another story.

w/respect A
 

Tez3

Sr. Grandmaster
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
Messages
27,357
Reaction score
4,655
Location
England
no offense but this college course sounds like a typical US and Canada women's studies course in the humanities. based on post modernism and Marxist thought. standard class warfare and the oppressed rhetoric.
so that is why i asked for some take away's that are relevant to actual self defense.


which leads me to a relevant concept, that us men who are interested in providing self defense instruction and are wanting to learn more about actually helping get turned off when there is a narrative that men are evil and the reason for oppression. it causes a back lash of negative emotion.


You see, you post up something which may inform, may help and you get gyp for it. Everyone's a critic. Don't take the course if you don't like it, comparing it to a 'college' course when it's a university one is incorrect. College here is for 16-18 years doing Btecs and A levels, universities are for taking degrees, a step up so it's for adults looking for information for their professional careers not political propaganda.

The use of 'takeways' and teasers' indicates you think it's some sort comic books stuff.

As it's a British uni it will not be a college course. There tends not to be the dislike of 'women's studies' here such as you display, this course comes under psychology/social work studies intended for people who work in fields that need to understand violence such as police officers and social workers rather than your detested feminists looking to blame men. There are similar courses in understanding young male to male violence, gang violence and domestic violence in partnerships/marriage etc. This is a short by academic standards FREE course so isn't going to cover in such huge detail as an undergraduate course of three years will.

You need to disabuse yourself of the idea that women are out to get you...or at least if they are it won't be because you are male but for something else. It may be that your perception of women, Marxism, the left etc is somewhat passe and they are actually laughing at you. I mean class warfare? so 70s. I have no idea what 'suppressed rhetoric' is, perhaps it's like trapped wind?

This Masters course, extensively covering the aspects of violence, note it comes under 'global studies' and who the experts are. If I were younger I'd find this something I'd find interesting to do, as I have a 1:1, I'd be qualified to apply though the placement might have been difficult.
Gender, Violence and Conflict MA : University of Sussex

The course focuses on:

  • gendered experiences of violence
  • conflict and peace
  • militarisation
  • masculinities and femininities
  • representations, embodiments and the institutionalisation of violence.
Violence is a huge subject, male on male violence an entire subject on it's own, there's also female on female violence and domestic abuse. Violence to children, violence by children, child soldiers, violence by nuns ( a far nastier subject than we'd like to think about) etc.


As for the 'evil men' idiocy, well that's your take on it which you, I'm sure, are entitled to however much you are wrong. I don't know why US men would be different from others but your words not mine. These course are for professionals not people who have an agenda of hating men. You seem to have a bee in your bonnet about 'feminists' and being hated, quite odd.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest Discussions

Top