How do YOU teach women in crisis?

[shesulsa]

Anyone here done a seminar for women in crisis, e.g. at a women's shelter? What did you present and how did you present it?

Teaching self-defense to people in crisis can be tricky; curious what everyone here thinks.

Thanks!

 

[Master Dan]

The last 16 years I have worked with children and women victims of abuse on many levels and it is a complex issue on many levels but since you asked about women I will focus there. You need to be more specific what you are looking for. There is consideralbe mental health issues beyond just physical defense to deal with. A major ones are self worth, chemical or other dependency issues, past abuse by family and others. I like using foam clubs to help with defense issues and the first time I had a large group not knowing of pas abuse some would just freak out and be tramatized. Many have posturing issues and closing eyes totally undefensable so you need to start with control of the eyes and posturing issues and conditioning to not freak over potential contact.

Frankly the prevention issues are thier best hope, breaking the cycel like co dependency and no matter what no matter how any many of these women get good at simple defense techniques if they have alcohol or drug issues they have to learn no not make themselves defenseless and not hang around dangerous people.

We just had a 21 year old girl murdered last week by boyfreind drinking he choked her then sliced his arms up blood all over and video tapped it while she was alive and then playing guitar sitting next to her after shes dead the police took the camera this kind of stuff happens all the time up here if I can get girls from 8-12 in training and learn not to go for the first looser that smiles at them they have a pretty good chance and frankly many of my female students have done serious damage to attackers with long rap sheets. It comes down to self worth many times and learning not to be a victom and I find many of the Femnist defense programs to be a load of crap. If you want real specifics PM I will give you more off line

 

[aedrasteia]

Programs working on self worth _are_ feminist programs. Working - is the word that counts.

Not the instructor talking about self worth or instructors lecturing and repeating over and over and over again
empty bromides about self worth (and elsewhere wondering 'why don't these women defend themselves?')

learning 'not to be a victim'? how do you guess they 'learned to be the victim' in the first place?
Georgia's experience about the girls correctly reading the conflict about 'politeness' is a tiny
place to start. Unpack _that_ episode in her class and instructors can begin a small step to change.
And the problem isn't with the little girls, some of them were just smart enough and honest
enough to point out the double-bind they can feel.

why/how does an 8-12 year old girl learn 'to go for the first loser that smiles at them'?
what are 8-12 year old girls learning every day ? who or what are they learning from?

sadly, MA training w/out the 'other stuff' is often little help when the assault/abuse comes from
inside the circle of family/friends. And that's the way over 80% of it happens.

And for clarity- the people who kept hammering away on this piece of reality: "There is consideralbe mental health issues beyond just physical defense to deal with. A major ones are self worth, chemical or other dependency issues, past abuse by family and others." were those feminist people...back in the 70s when the attitudes about abuse and assault were even worse than today and the issue of 'self worth' among women/girls being the core of SD4W was a joke among men in MA and SD.
Its still a joke for some; for most guys in the field, even the many, many good guys, its just incomprehensible, confusing.
They'll be the first to tell you 'I don't get it' and they are right. They don't. But they could, I think - maybe I'm
too optimistic.

'the first time I had a large group not knowing of pas(t) abuse some would just freak out and be tramatized.'
speaks for itself. 99% of instructors screw up this way, not meaning to, but don't put in the effort and time
to learn this part or blow it off.

Dan, I'm glad you learned to possibly do something different today. Put it out here where everyone can learn.
thanks

 

[Cyriacus]

Thisll sound a bit odd, but give them a Punching Bag and let them work it for a while. Any dummy with some guidance will find it somewhat (at least) outletting, and its easier to correct minor errors until theyre punching straight and deep. Its a start.

Given a week or two of that, one could step it up.

 

[jks9199]

You can't really teach them IN crisis. You can teach them during the situations that result from crisis... but tread carefully, because there'll be a whole lot of emotions running wild there.

 

[Master Dan]

Programs working on self worth _are_ feminist programs. Working - is the word that counts.

Not the instructor talking about self worth or instructors lecturing and repeating over and over and over again
empty bromides about self worth (and elsewhere wondering 'why don't these women defend themselves?')

learning 'not to be a victim'? how do you guess they 'learned to be the victim' in the first place?
Georgia's experience about the girls correctly reading the conflict about 'politeness' is a tiny
place to start. Unpack _that_ episode in her class and instructors can begin a small step to change.
And the problem isn't with the little girls, some of them were just smart enough and honest
enough to point out the double-bind they can feel.

why/how does an 8-12 year old girl learn 'to go for the first loser that smiles at them'?
what are 8-12 year old girls learning every day ? who or what are they learning from?

sadly, MA training w/out the 'other stuff' is often little help when the assault/abuse comes from
inside the circle of family/friends. And that's the way over 80% of it happens.

And for clarity- the people who kept hammering away on this piece of reality: "There is consideralbe mental health issues beyond just physical defense to deal with. A major ones are self worth, chemical or other dependency issues, past abuse by family and others." were those feminist people...back in the 70s when the attitudes about abuse and assault were even worse than today and the issue of 'self worth' among women/girls being the core of SD4W was a joke among men in MA and SD.
Its still a joke for some; for most guys in the field, even the many, many good guys, its just incomprehensible, confusing.
They'll be the first to tell you 'I don't get it' and they are right. They don't. But they could, I think - maybe I'm
too optimistic.

'the first time I had a large group not knowing of pas(t) abuse some would just freak out and be tramatized.'
speaks for itself. 99% of instructors screw up this way, not meaning to, but don't put in the effort and time
to learn this part or blow it off.

Dan, I'm glad you learned to possibly do something different today. Put it out here where everyone can learn.
thanks

Exactly all your points are well taken and it took along time working with behavior health and other professionals that can be beneficial in working with these people and I would like to add it is not just the female gender but boys and even men I work with that have deep seated abuse and trama issues and before you want to start trying to teach physical defense it helps to know more back ground on the environment the person comes from that takes time to work with before they can possibly step up and begin the process of healing at the same time of getting stronger it is at the core of what a Martial Artist should be a healer first and a defender second. It is about the human condition and the spirit and people who say it is just a business or a sport fine but not for me and not for many of those original pioneers of Traditional Martial Art. We have one of the highest rates of suicide in the world here a few years ago we were called Murder Town USA in the National Enquirer and the movie the 4th kind was based on our town due to so many missing people. I would also like to add that Ihave had great progress working with violent youth offenders who also are a product of what hass been done to them

 

[aedrasteia]

Anyone here done a seminar for women in crisis, e.g. at a women's shelter? What did you present and how did you present it?

Teaching self-defense to people in crisis can be tricky; curious what everyone here thinks.

Thanks!

thanks for caring about this Georgia. I've learned much from your posts.
This post is about what is necessary for instructors first. more later

my comments apply to any class for girls and women.

Resilience - the ability to tolerate and recover from stressful situations is the first key. Obviously, if the participants
are overwhelmed and unable to learn they either leave the class or mentally/emotionally withdraw. or be in terrible shape.
Its the instructors job to work with them to build their resilience, first, and sustain it during. Each person will
be different.

Every class - every one - has women survivors in it. Some are in visible crisis, some are survivors non-disclosed to you
as the instructor, many can't face it for themselves. the circumstances of a class can put them at big risk for more damage.
And nobody can 'just tell', so responsible people prepare under all circumstances.

At a shelter/survivor class I work directly w/participants and staff to make sure everyone is working at an intensity level
they can tolerate without overload. And that can change inside the class or from one class to another. and it is
different for every woman. some can tolerate everything, for others watching and listening is right at the edge
of what they can sustain. that's fine with me. I commend them for that step.

In poorly done classes I've observed some will hide their struggle to cope till they get home - and never come back to a class. I'm always sad and sad when guys running classes complain about the women who start and don't come back, so many of the survivors hide behind stories about other reasons - often leaving is the only way they believe they can get out of a situation that puts them _way_ over their ability to cope.

In a way, they themselves are practicing a form of SD - taking themselves out of an experience that brings back
all the stuff they know they can't handle.

I start there. I name and discuss overload and let them know they can leave the floor and sit out or leave the room
to regroup, at any time. I only need a check-in from them and we will figure out together what needs to happen next for them. No embarassment, no ridicule, no spotlight on them.

ANd because we learn ways to 'put on the brakes' before we do anything else, they can actually do active things
to keep themselves from sliding into an emotional/psych tailspin and crash if they feel it starting. They are the ones taking this action, getting back in control. Its a _huge_ positive.

This is learning another form of real self-defense. Taking care of themselves, without anyone, especially me as the instructor, becoming irritatedor impatient or puzzeled.

In a shelter setting (where I have worked with abused women and homeless women) some material almost everyone can
tolerate listening to and practicing, but the key is working with the staff , knowing who needs different help and support
and of what kind.
Survivors of abuse, assault, rape, molestation are experts on their own experience.
They know more than any instructor about how they survived, as best they could, in impossible situations.
And they try to resist, even when it isn't resistance most men and MA instructors would recognize.

You are never starting from zero with them. Never.

They always resisted, even if the only way they could was to turn their face to the wall while it was happening.
Sometimes you start right there.

You listen to them. you ask the right questions and listen carefully to what they tell you.

you start by building emotional/psych safety and support into every class from the first moment.

As the responsible instructor You must already know and know how to use and teach, physical and verbal grounding, centering and recovery techniques to keep women from sliding into re-experiencing the horror so fully that they sustain more damage (and I mean actual damage to the limbic/endocrine system) through adrenaline overload and crash. It should be a central element of the skills every SD4W instructor brings to every class but even more so to working with identified survivors.

No instructor is a therapist or counselor - no one expects that. But instructors have to work with staff in a shelter
and for me its a requirement that I understand whats happening and have access and back-up with people who
have worked in this. I'll add cites later.

Every SD instructor needs to understand the neurobiology of trauma and how to incorporate that knowledge into every
class with women and girls. This knowledge means better and more effective classes.
Working with directly identified survivors and NOT knowing is so irresponsible it is nearly criminal.

(interesting interview w/MM instructor) http://www.womynwarrior.com/2011/03/interview-mark-vinci-of-model-mugging/

and core competencies for instructors http://www.womynwarrior.com/resources-2/nwmaf-self-defense-instructor-core-competencies/

with respect,

 

[JohnEdward]

I think people under estimate the difficultly of such a venture. I agree a bad class can have a real negative impact. It is more than just teaching technique in scenario based class. You are dealing with three levels, emotional, psychological and physical. Two of which are in delicate states. The third being the right application that doesn't become a trigger.

Good luck!

 

[MA-Caver]

My own personal experience is limited to more counseling than self-defense. Meeting these women before/during/after a meeting of a well known 12 step program and helping them understand the program as it were and then over time hearing their stories and hoping at least (for me) that they understand not all men are worthy of distrust, scorn and regrettably fear, that they can be trusted to be decent human beings who actually cares. There was never a sense of romance in any of these "friendships" I've had as I was not legally a counselor but knew the program they were in well enough to advise and be a sympathetic ear and encourage them to seek out help beyond what the program can offer. And yes, recommending that they take SD/MA classes on a regular basis.
This was mainly to bolster their own self-confidence, self-esteem, self doubt and self worth as they grew and became strong enough to help others like themselves.

I think people under estimate the difficultly of such a venture. I agree a bad class can have a real negative impact. It is more than just teaching technique in scenario based class. You are dealing with three levels, emotional, psychological and physical. Two of which are in delicate states. The third being the right application that doesn't become a trigger.

This is true but my recommendation is that they train with all female instructors at first (if possible) so that at least they come back into the next class somewhat or totally eager to try it out on a male instructor/assistant. The men (again if possible) should be more like "drones" emotionally void as it were, just a body to practice on and neutral encouragement. Being ukes.
It's going to vary with each student of course but I believe over time each of them will obtain enough confidence to deal with being in *ahem* close quarters (and simulated violence at that) with a man.
Realistically... not all of them are going to pass the muster to do so.

 

[shesulsa]

I know that as an abuse survivor that the separation between victim and aggressor used to be a very concrete one - violence, i.e. the actual act of hitting rather than the *person.* After all, bad people hit, good people didn't. This is wrong thinking, obviously, but when I was in crisis and presented with a weapon to use against my aggressor, I tossed it aside rather than move forward and potentially ensure my safety largely because I refused to identify myself as being an aggressor of any kind. Hence, I really doubt going in with a bag and gloves or sticks, etcetera, is really the way to go.

I'm thinking allowing the women in attendance to drive the course, for the most part; asking what THEY want to talk about, how they see self-defense helping them in their lives and what THEY want to learn to do and going from there.

I'm looking for best practices here.

Interesting feedback so far - thanks, and keep it up!

 

[Jenna]

I know that as an abuse survivor that the separation between victim and aggressor used to be a very concrete one - violence, i.e. the actual act of hitting rather than the *person.* After all, bad people hit, good people didn't. This is wrong thinking, obviously, but when I was in crisis and presented with a weapon to use against my aggressor, I tossed it aside rather than move forward and potentially ensure my safety largely because I refused to identify myself as being an aggressor of any kind. Hence, I really doubt going in with a bag and gloves or sticks, etcetera, is really the way to go.

I'm thinking allowing the women in attendance to drive the course, for the most part; asking what THEY want to talk about, how they see self-defense helping them in their lives and what THEY want to learn to do and going from there.

I'm looking for best practices here.

Interesting feedback so far - thanks, and keep it up!

I think you are correct in that aggression is something most of us in similar situations dislike even to the point where we MAKE ourselves become victim by our reticence to see it as defence. I think the change particularly for women is subtle and but important and that is I think to move from aggression to defence. Few of us would ever be natural aggressors and but it is our God given right to DEFEND ourselves.

I have never presented and but have attended a course which was taken by a sage lady and who made this point and even at that stage there was a sense of -as you say- perpetuating an aggression: the thing that we despise most. And she put it that were we being attacked by a rabid animal then to spare our health and lives we would not be the aggressors, rather defenders - and those that would seek to take our liberty to exist freely without harm have thus ceded their right to be viewed differently from such attacking animals. Likewise she put it that we are never looking to defeat anybody -it is not a case of that- and but rather to live without physical harm or fear of it.

Aside from that, being competent in defence precipitates the building of confidence and which I remember was a frightening concern for most women. To get to the point of realisation that you are confident in your defence allows you in turn to function in the world with greater confidence, to not be bullied, to never be put upon.

As well, I think there is more to self defence than fighting with fists and feet. There is also an aspect of defeating one's own demons through gains not only in physical strength and but also in mental fortitude which comes from success in learning one's own defence. Likewise, few who have not done physical exercise, let alone martial art type disciplines cannot know the amazing positive effects our activities have upon depression- and anxiety-related conditions. This can move a woman from that pit of despair into the light again that they thought they wouls not see. I think this is never to be underestimated either.

I think there is a great deal of scope for opening this out and moving it away from "hitting them harder than they hit me". I wish you well. I think you are the person to deliver it fittingly. Please say how it goes, I would be interested to know, Janna xo

 

[Tez3]

I haven't worked with abused women from a martial arts point of view but my daughter coaches a couple of women in her cheer leading class who have been abused We were talking about it the other day, what seems to help them is gaining confidence in themselves, being able to learn something and show it off in competitions etc, (so often they've been told they are stupid, thick etc) and the strong support of other women who can show them by example that not all relationships are violent, that a woman can be strong etc. My daughter also said that treating them as 'normal' without judgement is important, they can blend in for a couple of hours doing something physical and fun. With the fitness and physical work comes confidence and they feel more able to cope with whatever (as we all do!). The military psychiatric department is very keen on fitness as a way of helping PTSD sufferers so there is something to it. The cameraderie of the girls in the cheer club is the same as it is in a martial arts club, with encouragement and appreciation of efforts being important.
My daughter has broached the idea of my doing a self defence session or two with all the women and girls, I'm thinking about it so am reading this thread with interest.

 

[shesulsa]

Thank you Tez and Thank you, Jenna!

When I first embarked upon this endeavor, one of the counselors at the Y strongly suggested that you NEVER ask "why" - as in "why don't you just leave" or "why not call the police" or "why didn't you defend your children then?" This goes to the judgementalism that Jenna spoke of. When you start asking those questions, you lose the trust of the women. "Why" is not a question they can answer with anything else but either "because I love him" or "I don't know." They, themselves, don't know why, so the answer becomes defensive and you have now put yourself as an aggressor - someone they will no longer trust.

I know I will get absolutely nowhere with these women if I can not quickly establish some level of respect and trust.

 

[Master Dan]

I would also like to mention that I teach prevention especially for travel driving or flying to other cities how to plan trips and reduce risk in all types of shopping senarios

 

[mook jong man]

I have taught an Islander lady before that was abused by her husband , one time after I had taught the class a mount escape she told me that she had wished she had known the technique before .

She went on to say that there was an instance where her abusive ex husband had sat on her and repeatedly smashed her head into a concrete floor.

She was a very nice lady , but maybe as a result of the trauma she had been through , when she trained with the other women she would act as though it was a real fight and injure the partners , being an Islander women she was also quite a bit bigger than the other ladies.

I ended up having to make sure she always trained with a man or myself , not that I'm not a man , well you know what I mean.

It's just something to watch out for , you might get some that are a bit timid , but you might also get some that are pretty aggro.

 

[Flea]

I recently went to a training given by SAMHSA on trauma. It had much more of a clinical focus of course, but I think a lot of it could apply here as well. One of the biggest lessons I got from it is that healing and recovery begin the moment the trauma is over. As such (and this is consistent with much of mental health care) the survivor is the teacher and the healer, because they know best what they need. It is therefore the role of the clinician/therapist to build on the self-healing practices the survivor already has in place.

I also found it interesting that the presenter came back to the theme of social justice several times. He said that it's integral to trauma recovery in many ways, from criminal justice on an individual level to broad social reform to correct climates that condone or encourage atrocities.

I think there are some good seeds there for martial arts practices, and if it weren't so late at night I'd dig a little deeper. Maybe in the morning. Hope it helps.

 

[shesulsa]

Yesterday's workshops at the YWCA were awkward. Some women were ready for hands-on stuff, but once hands were on, they went instantaneously into freeze mode - their fear took over.

A mother-daughter team did better than the others - likely because they had each other.

A couple of women broke down and cried - fortunately some counselors were there for them.

One lady, the last to leave, said the dreaded phrase as she left: "I just don't want to hurt anybody."

I'm convinced that the one-shot approach IS NOT SUFFICIENT. And I wonder how many of them would try it again.

It kinda blew my mind that these are women in crisis - living with the violence everyday and they are getting therapy and ... are still too fearful to fight for themselves. This is different from the standard class I teach to women who are more afraid of violence from strangers.

Whew. Just ... kinda ... wanted to get that out. I want to continue this discussion but I'll need to write more later.

 

[Carol]

Wait ... are they paired up with one another for training?

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

 

[aedrasteia]

Yesterday's workshops at the YWCA were awkward. Some women were ready for hands-on stuff, but once hands were on, they went instantaneously into freeze mode - their fear took over.
A mother-daughter team did better than the others - likely because they had each other.

A couple of women broke down and cried - fortunately some counselors were there for them.

One lady, the last to leave, said the dreaded phrase as she left: "I just don't want to hurt anybody."
I'm convinced that the one-shot approach IS NOT SUFFICIENT. And I wonder how many of them would try it again.
It kinda blew my mind that these are women in crisis - living with the violence everyday and they are getting therapy and ... are still too fearful to fight for themselves. This is different from the standard class I teach to women who are more afraid of violence from strangers.
Whew. Just ... kinda ... wanted to get that out. I want to continue this discussion but I'll need to write more later.

Georgia

thanks and bless you for the honesty to post this. Lots for all of us to learn from this experience and I'll do
my best to add value to the conversation. None of these painful/unsuccessful experiences are in any way
surprising or unusual. And nearly 99% can be avoided, anticipated and often, turned into 'teachable moments'
that can benefit everyone (including us as instructors, women and often survivors).

No surprise that participants said or indicated (or that you believed) "Some women were ready for hands-on stuff, but once hands were on, they went instantaneously into freeze mode - their fear took over."

Participants (both survivors and others) regularly and predictably overstate their readiness - lots of unsurprising
reasons for that - they want to be seen as brave, they want to please teachers by being 'tough', they are deeply
ashamed of being 'cowards, losers etc.' They want to do something - anything differently.

think of all the contemptous labels given to beaten women.
Not knowingly by you, Georgia, but the women carry those labels in with them. Lots of bafflement and dismissal
from the larger community and especially MA, and sometimes LE and the legal world.

As an instructor, part of my job is to assess that - to know how to assess their readiness carefully.
(and sometimes I'm incorrect too). Its part of that responsibility to make sure they are working at
the outer range of their capacity - but never getting overwhelmed to the point that the entire amygdala/adrenhaline
endocrine system goes sliding into a spiral that re-activates the abuse experiences.

Several things I can guarantee. They will not be overwhelmed/swamped by the experience - no matter what has
happened in the past - they will experience some successes (no matter how small to an outside observer) and they
will leave with at least one tangible, measurable skill (verbal, cognitive,and/or physical) that they can actively use
in their specific situation.

This link describes what I wrote about previously - I'll post about actively using/adapting for classes with
women/girls. http://home.webuniverse.net/babette/Brakes.html

bless you for caring so much Georgia, you have my appreciation and respect.

 

[Tez3]

Out of my depth here but I was thinking is it possible to teach them something like traditional karate or Judo before you get to the hands on stuff? Perhaps a Chinese style or Tai Chi first so they get a feel for physical movement and a sense they can do something before they start learning SD? Perhaps something like a basic kata, as you can get a sort of meditation from doing it as well as achievement when you've learnt it, then move on to Bunkai?
I know that women who haven't been abused find sparring and SD quite difficult because of this problem of them hurting people. Most don't mind getting hurt, it's hurting others that's the problem.