Why You (Probably) Should Not Carry A Weapon

Would it? Considering the size of those counties, I don't think so at all. The entire state amounts to a bit under 11,000 square miles. Colorado, which is a fairly mid-sized state, is over 104,000 square miles. There are at least a half-dozen counties in America that are, by themselves, larger than the entire state of Hawaii.
And Buka, who actually lives there, tells us that the enforcement of gun laws there is....erratic...
Hawaii is known for having some truly draconian gun laws. The latest stats I can find indicate that as of September 2021, Hawaii had issued a whopping 281 gun permits. For the entire state. With a population around 1.4 million.
My point exactly. The islands (by square miles) are relatively small. But again, I don't know a ton about the gun restraints there, just what the federal regs say.
I suppose for islands where the population may not grow as quickly or where people do not move around as much, gun permit registration may not change all that much. Granted, 281 is a very low number to me.
 
Where? Private sales are permitted in most places. Michigan did permit it until this year.
You mean I could buy a gun from a private person wishing to sell one from her collection?
 
You mean I could buy a gun from a private person wishing to sell one from her collection?
Yes. Thats how it was in most of the USA when I was a kid. You could even mail order pistols from a catalogue. Lots of Raven brand semi auto pistols in .25apc were bought at 3 for $99.00 in those days. It was the most common way for people to get shot at the bus stop when I was in high school. Usually from inside a pocket on a crowded bus stop. Everyone would scatter, including the shooter, leaving the victim hopping away or laying on the ground screaming. I never saw anyone die from that but Ive been witness to more than a dozen versions of that event. .25 APC has a fairly distinct sound when fired from a pants or jacket pocket.
 
Ah! Thats where the (good) system breaks down and the nutters get hold of guns! What a shame.
Well thats not entirely true, you can get anything you want with enough cash if you arent interested in following the law. That part isnt new. Nutters arent usually concerned with what is or isnt legal.
 
Well thats not entirely true, you can get anything you want with enough cash if you arent interested in following the law. That part isnt new. Nutters arent usually concerned with what is or isnt legal.
Yes, but its just another and seemingly very easy avenue to obtain guns whilst having a criminal record or psychosis without attracting attention and then getting up to tomfoolery.
 
Yes, but its just another and seemingly very easy avenue to obtain guns whilst having a criminal record or psychosis without attracting attention and then getting up to tomfoolery.
We(me) become inured to things we experience regularly. I just accepted that people shot each other in public over perceived slights, to prove themselves worthy of gang membership, for looking in the wrong direction, or pretty much nothing at all. I believe my experiences have jaded my beliefs and colored my responses with heavy biases.
 
We(me) become inured to things we experience regularly. I just accepted that people shot each other in public over perceived slights, to prove themselves worthy of gang membership, for looking in the wrong direction, or pretty much nothing at all. I believe my experiences have jaded my beliefs and colored my responses with heavy biases.
Im not surprised!
 
Where? Private sales are permitted in most places. Michigan did permit it until this year.
This isn't really true. There are absolutely states that do not explicitly require private sales to include an NICS check. However, 100% of those states DO have laws making it a crime for the private seller to transfer the firearm to anyone who is not allowed by law to possess a gun. And the only way they can do that is by going to their local gun shop for an NICS check.

So while I am sure there are people in those states (and every state) selling firearms without a background check, doing so remains a crime.
 
This isn't really true. There are absolutely states that do not explicitly require private sales to include an NICS check. However, 100% of those states DO have laws making it a crime for the private seller to transfer the firearm to anyone who is not allowed by law to possess a gun. And the only way they can do that is by going to their local gun shop for an NICS check.

So while I am sure there are people in those states (and every state) selling firearms without a background check, doing so remains a crime.
Hmm. I'm not sure I can agree with that statement. The so-called 'gunshow loophole' that existed, and I believe still exists, was simply sellers at gun shows who did not define themselves as 'engaging in the business' and therefore who sold guns 'from their private collection' without a 4473, an FFL, or a background check. While sketchy, and I'm sure a lot of these 'collectors' were dealers based on a strict interpretation of the law, they certainly were permitted to operate.

I'm not a LEO anymore, and I'm certainly not a lawyer. I'm not even an FFL anymore, as of May of this year. But the fact that Michigan just this year began to require background checks for private sales makes me think that prior to the law taking effect, it was legal - else why change the law?
 
You mean I could buy a gun from a private person wishing to sell one from her collection?
Correct as I understand it. You could also inherit a firearm from someone. Private transfers do not require background checks or a filled out 4473 in many states. That is changing in Michigan due to changes in the law.

Until May of this year, I had a FFL license for Curios and Relics. Meaning I could buy firearms over 50 years old judged to be C&R firearms by the ATF and have them sent directly to my house; no background check either. But then, an FFL dealer has already undergone some extensive background checks to get a license.
 
Hmm. I'm not sure I can agree with that statement. The so-called 'gunshow loophole' that existed, and I believe still exists, was simply sellers at gun shows who did not define themselves as 'engaging in the business' and therefore who sold guns 'from their private collection' without a 4473, an FFL, or a background check. While sketchy, and I'm sure a lot of these 'collectors' were dealers based on a strict interpretation of the law, they certainly were permitted to operate.

I'm not a LEO anymore, and I'm certainly not a lawyer. I'm not even an FFL anymore, as of May of this year. But the fact that Michigan just this year began to require background checks for private sales makes me think that prior to the law taking effect, it was legal - else why change the law?
There is no such loophole, really. Every single state either explicitly requires a background check and/or makes it illegal to transfer a gun if the person you're transferring it to is not legally allowed to possess a gun. Implicitly requiring a background check. Anyone who transfers a gun in the way you describe is committing a crime if the person they sold the gun turns out to be a bad guy.

As I said before. Do individuals make private gun sales? Of course. Are they breaking the law? Yes, if the person they sell to wouldn't pass a background check. Could the language of those laws be cleaned up by explicitly specifying an NICS check? Yes, but nonetheless there are no state in which it is just legal to sell guns to anyone.
 
There is no such loophole, really. Every single state either explicitly requires a background check and/or makes it illegal to transfer a gun if the person you're transferring it to is not legally allowed to possess a gun. Implicitly requiring a background check. Anyone who transfers a gun in the way you describe is committing a crime if the person they sold the gun turns out to be a bad guy.

As I said before. Do individuals make private gun sales? Of course. Are they breaking the law? Yes, if the person they sell to wouldn't pass a background check. Could the language of those laws be cleaned up by explicitly specifying an NICS check? Yes, but nonetheless there are no state in which it is just legal to sell guns to anyone.
OK, I understand. *If* the person you're selling to is not legally permitted to own a firearm, you're breaking the law. Got it. I don't think that makes private sales illegal, but they *could* be illegal depending on the circumstances.

I used to go to gunshows and buy and sell guns and never had a background check done; there were even guys wandering around with rifles on their shoulders with 'for sale' signs on them. I did lots of trading in the old days, just swapping one gun for another as the mood struck me. That was a long time ago, and times have changed (for the better). But with instant background checks, the last several AR lowers I purchased at a gun show, they did the background check online at the dealer's booth and it took 10 minutes. Saved me the shipping and transfer fee to have it sent to a local dealer.
 
OK, I understand. *If* the person you're selling to is not legally permitted to own a firearm, you're breaking the law. Got it. I don't think that makes private sales illegal, but they *could* be illegal depending on the circumstances.

I used to go to gunshows and buy and sell guns and never had a background check done; there were even guys wandering around with rifles on their shoulders with 'for sale' signs on them. I did lots of trading in the old days, just swapping one gun for another as the mood struck me. That was a long time ago, and times have changed (for the better). But with instant background checks, the last several AR lowers I purchased at a gun show, they did the background check online at the dealer's booth and it took 10 minutes. Saved me the shipping and transfer fee to have it sent to a local dealer.
The USA is a different world.
 

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