Why don't you keep your back heel up in a front stance?

[punisher73]

As with all things...it depends.

Also, remember that much of Japanese karate and the styles it influenced chose form over function. Squaring the shoulders, punch at a 90 degree angle from the shoulder, parallel to the floor, etc. Looked good, but has nothing to do with fighting.

One reason for the heel on the ground, as has been mentioned, is to brace your body. It stops foward momentum against you, if you lift the heel up and try it will drive you backwards.

On the other hand, learning to drive the body and lift the heel slightly when you punch allows you to get a little bit more reach and more weight into the punch.

It all depends on what you are trying to accomplish at that snapshot of time.

 

[Touch Of Death]

OK, you guys, if a force is coming at you, keep the heel down, if you are the force coming at someone, it is ok to keep your heel up. Just don't get your wires crossed.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

To me it makes 0 difference you get all these instructors saying if your heels up your unbalanced and you can fall all over the place or you've got to have a very low stance or you'll be thrown around like a piece of string. Well look at any fight ring or street no one in a very deep low stance no one has the exact correct alignment of their feet with toe heel alignment. To me that's just something instructors say to sound clever with all their theory and ok maybe it makes .5 % of a difference but does anyone really think a fights won or lost depending on whether their heel is raised or not.

I've seen very few instructors who are trying to "look clever". There is a point to even the most exacting stances (though I'd argue it's often not the stance that's the point, but some level of development). For relatively new students, exacting stances are one way to get them kind of close. If you ask for approximations, you get approximations of those approximations. If you ask for exact movements and stances, you get approximations of those exact movements or stances.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I think a person would be fine with the heel up until some uses a soft technique to pull the punching hand forward. Grappliers pull people forward but I can't remember if it's done when the opponent's heel is up or down

The heel wouldn't be my point of consideration in pulling someone forward. It's their center of gravity, whether they are moving, and where their toes are.

 

[JowGaWolf]

The heel wouldn't be my point of consideration in pulling someone forward. It's their center of gravity, whether they are moving, and where their toes are.

I do a lot of sweeping so I watch a lot of feet. If I see that some one likes to keep the heel up then I know which techniques I can use to exploit the root.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I do a lot of sweeping so I watch a lot of feet. If I see that some one likes to keep the heel up then I know which techniques I can use to exploit the root.

Remind me to wear my hakama if we ever spar.

 

[Headhunter]

I've seen very few instructors who are trying to "look clever". There is a point to even the most exacting stances (though I'd argue it's often not the stance that's the point, but some level of development). For relatively new students, exacting stances are one way to get them kind of close. If you ask for approximations, you get approximations of those approximations. If you ask for exact movements and stances, you get approximations of those exact movements or stances.

I think if an instructor spends 2 hours talking about how to a roundhouse kick (yes that has happened trust me I was asleep by the end of it) then yeah that is trying to sound clever.

I've seen instructors just talk and talk and talk about theory and the whole class is standing for an hour listening without actually doing anything. Now all respect to the people who can talk that long but to me it's not a good way to teach just lecturing you've got to actually let your students practice not talk to them. It's like these days you get 10 years old who can tell you everything about how a car works how the engine fits etc but can they drive it? Can they actually use it for what it's built for? No course not because they've never driven only read facts. Same with martial arts you can talk all you like about how get the perfect stance or cancel your dimensions but if you can't actually do your moves and can't spar well what's the point of listening to all that

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I think if an instructor spends 2 hours talking about how to a roundhouse kick (yes that has happened trust me I was asleep by the end of it) then yeah that is trying to sound clever.

I've seen instructors just talk and talk and talk about theory and the whole class is standing for an hour listening without actually doing anything. Now all respect to the people who can talk that long but to me it's not a good way to teach just lecturing you've got to actually let your students practice not talk to them. It's like these days you get 10 years old who can tell you everything about how a car works how the engine fits etc but can they drive it? Can they actually use it for what it's built for? No course not because they've never driven only read facts. Same with martial arts you can talk all you like about how get the perfect stance or cancel your dimensions but if you can't actually do your moves and can't spar well what's the point of listening to all that

Most instructors who talk too much aren't trying to sound clever. They are trying to pass on knowledge, and simply haven't organized it well enough in advance. Some people naturally use more words than others, and that example sounds like someone using more words than necessary. I'd agree that 2 hours is too long to simply discuss any physical movement, unless it includes demonstrations and is on a DVD.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Most instructors who talk too much aren't trying to sound clever. They are trying to pass on knowledge, and simply haven't organized it well enough in advance. Some people naturally use more words than others, and that example sounds like someone using more words than necessary. I'd agree that 2 hours is too long to simply discuss any physical movement, unless it includes demonstrations and is on a DVD.

I'm a wordy Instructor but only because I can see that students either don't believe what comes out of my mouth or they get that stare as if they can't visualize it. Usually sparring let's me know if they trust or understand what I say. Most of the time they learn the hard way so I'm learning to say things once and let them learn on their own. Students can be like children, no matter what you say they will still try to do things their own way until they learn first hand.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Remind me to wear my hakama if we ever spar.

I have said to much. Lol. I think that would definitely fry my mind.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I'm a wordy Instructor but only because I can see that students either don't believe what comes out of my mouth or they get that stare as if they can't visualize it. Usually sparring let's me know if they trust or understand what I say. Most of the time they learn the hard way so I'm learning to say things once and let them learn on their own. Students can be like children, no matter what you say they will still try to do things their own way until they learn first hand.

I can be the same way. Oddly, I do better when I have a bigger class. When I have only a few students, those poor things have to listen to me talk more and have to put up with more corrections.

 

[Juany118]

This is probably from old kung fu roots. Keeping the heel downs gives a stronger stance that's not easily moved, but that's only part of it. The other part is that having the heel down will allow you to drive power into your punch in the form of a push. Boxers twist power, but this is push power. The function behind it is that you are able to push more of your body mass into the punch and therefore require less effort from the arm to deal damage.

I tend to use the following to describe the above (specifically in reference to WC) "some arts 'throw' your mass behind a strike, others 'keep' your mass behind the strike."

 

[Th0mas]

It depends on what you are doing by dropping into front stance.
Essentially front stance is about dropping you weight forward. If this is being done as part of a standup grapple then keeping your feet flat provides a greater degree of stability during the pull and tug motions with your opponent.
If you are trying to perform a cross or reverse punch then raising your heal enables you to put more weight into your strike by freeing up the hip.
A lot depends on range and timing.
This is a general set of guidelines and in reality it depends on the specific circumstance. In karate, during Kihon practice the heal tends to remain down, but that is just a form thing.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I do a lot of sweeping so I watch a lot of feet. If I see that some one likes to keep the heel up then I know which techniques I can use to exploit the root.

It can be a "bait".

- You sweep your opponent.
- He bends his knee and lets your leg to pass below.
- He presses down his knee on top of your sweeping leg.
- He then sweep your sweeping leg.

It's "sweep against sweep".

 

[FlamingJulian]

I wish we did. I think that would lead to much fast kicks. Also think that stances should be less tradition and more closed/tighter stances for faster kicks and punches as well. Would also help footwork


-Julian

 

[KangTsai]

A flat rear foot, in my judgement would be for throwing heavy strikes with the arms and hands, since more force can be accumulated through the push of the ground. I personally stay on my toes on both feet at all times.