Why do students leave?

[moromoro]

I don't know that all of Bujinkan does that. I'm sure there's some variance between schools.

iam not talking about all bujinkan iam talking about SOKE Hatsumi

if you go to the daikomyosai event in japan it is a guarantee that he will grade you

soke hatsumi doesnt care bout grades he gives them as gifts

part of the greatest strategy in the bujinkan, kyojutsu tenkan ho

method of falsehood and truth

 

[theletch1]

I've put off adding to this post for a long time for reasons of my own but here goes. A lot of students that I have seen leave one school in particular leave because of an abusive instructor/unstable instructor. Have seen a white belt sent to a hospital with blood vessels busted in their leg to the point that compression bandages had to be worn to avoid blood clots as a result of "conditioning training". 14 year old students being called wimps for tapping out of arm bars "too soon" and having his wife in the class as a student and using her as a punching bag. Lot's more to this story but I won't go into it here. Let's just leave it at anyone in the roanoke Virginia area wanting to train is free to e-mail me to check out the schools in the area to make sure you aren't heading into the wrong school.

oh, yeah.... did I mention that I'm changing schools?:shrug:

 

[vin2k0]

People who leave are usually not 'made' for martial arts and cannot hack it. Either that, or they like to try different arts and different schools.

 

[Shinzu]

Originally posted by vin2k0
People who leave are usually not 'made' for martial arts and cannot hack it. Either that, or they like to try different arts and different schools.

i disagree. i left for various reasons, but never because i couldn't "hack it." peoples lives have many paths to take that lead them away from the MA. it took me many years to get back into it but i never lost my love for it.

some people just need to put it on the back burner for a bit.

 

[Deaf]

Originally posted by moromoro
iam not talking about all bujinkan iam talking about SOKE Hatsumi

if you go to the daikomyosai event in japan it is a guarantee that he will grade you

soke hatsumi doesnt care bout grades he gives them as gifts

part of the greatest strategy in the bujinkan, kyojutsu tenkan ho

method of falsehood and truth

Can you verify that information?

From my understanding the Japanese philosophy is totally different than American or European etc. philosophy. We tend to view ranks in terms of skill level shown BEFORE receiving the rank. Where as in Japan you are awarded the rank and then expected to "grow into" the rank.

I know that Hatsumi mainly awards rank based not on skill but more for "heart" and if I am correct, he only awards the 5th dan and above. And since any rank above 5th dan is really more of a "personal or spirtual" path for many, the ranks given are based on that type of growth.

I personally don't see the big deal in it just for the fact I look at a person's skill and not the belt or rank when I "judge" them

BTW.. is there any reason towards your bashing of the Bujinkan? You do know that there are many many other styles out there, even instructors that just basically give out rank like you have described.

I have trained in the MA (ShotoKan, Tang Soo Do and several others) for well over 20 years and have trained in Bujinkan for well over 7 of those years. I have just EARNED my 2nd Dan...so as you can see, not all Bujinkan ranks are just given out.

I'll stop my rantings for now.

~Deaf~

 

[girlychuks]

Originally posted by vin2k0
People who leave are usually not 'made' for martial arts and cannot hack it. Either that, or they like to try different arts and different schools.

Actually, I admire someone who knows thier limitations. I cannot believe there is not a martial arts that anyone cannot do to some extent. I have seen paralyzed/ downsyndrome affected/ blind people all do martial arts very well.

I consider Tai Chi a martial art, and it is one they teach at our senior centers.....

I am switching schools. lots of reasons, none of them minro to me or my family.
I will probably end up with my little brother studying Ji Do Kwan Tae Kwon Do with a smattering of hapkido/judo thrown in. Aaaugh! I can here the I told You so's coming......

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by girlychuks
Aaaugh! I can here the I told You so's coming......

Big deal, you study for yourself, not for them.

 

[Kenpo Yahoo]

What about students who leave a school because their instructor is an arrogant @$$ who simply views his students as income and nothing more?

What about the students who leave because they discover that their teacher is withholding information from them? Information that other students from other schools within their association have.

What about the students who leave because their instructor tries to make them act subordinate to him when they are in public settings (i.e. not the dojo)? You know like, you aren't allowed to speak at a table that "I'm" sitting at, because you know nothing.

There are other reasons out there for leaving a specific school or instructor. To chastise and stereotype everyone who makes a change simply because it is your opinion that they are hacks, is ridiculous.

Get half a brain

 

[moromoro]

I personally don't see the big deal in it just for the fact I look at a person's skill and not the belt or rank when I "judge" them

please explain this when talking about a 14th dan

 

[arnisandyz]

In my perfect world a student would leave to move on to another teacher or partner or solo to find his/her own way. Being both a student and teacher I try not to limit myself or my students. A student should go through many teachers that each have something to give the student depending on the students needs. There is a responsibily to the student do determine what that need is. Almost every good teacher that I have had has encouraged me to seek out other teachers to learn from.

Imagine if your entire education through college consisted of instruction from your first grade teacher.

 

[andurilking2]

yes i believe most people dont know what they're getting themselves into, they want either a quick way to kick someones *** or they think that it will be very little work when they get to a serieous place they cant hang

 

[KenpoBruce2006]

I've seen people leave for a variety of reasons, all of them listed. Adults tend to leave because they lose interest or their life schedule doesn't allow it anymore or they can't afford it. Kids just tend to lose interest. Or their parents don't think they are progressing fast enough (even though you gave them a general time frame and they agreed with it). Lots of reasons for lots of people.

Cioa
KenpoBruce2006

 

[bobster_ice]

From another thread.

Just curious as to why people think that students leave where they are at and go to new schools/teachers/arts?

Well I know of some students that have left my ninjutsu class because they think the art and training is far too hard for them, and that was after two weeks training. I try my best to encourage them to come back, I tell them that they would get used to art but they just dont come back.

Some other students leave Martial arts because their friends are bullying them to do things like fly kicks and front flips etc.

I have lots more suggestions but im only back from school so my brain isnt working properly,

Bobby

 

[Robert Lee]

I may be wrong But a person has to grow inside as well as the out of there training. This allows them to be able to stay in there chosen M/A . Years ago I was told you will see 300 people come and go before you make blackbelt. I did see many people come and go. And was told often That when a person is not ready for the next grade they begin to hold there self back because they have not grown from there learning. This perhaps makes sence. But when I left What is called TMA I saw the same And saw that as you push a person to perform that person has to push there limits. Some will many will not. And when you train with more contact and more application the same people just do not want to work for what they need to discover. So they leave either give up there M/A all together or move to another school where they feel it may be easyer for them. And yes some move to where they can become better feeling they are not getting what they want. Money does play a role . But when a person wants something they find away to get it. Instruction motivation and personal goals keep or drive people away. Whatever the reasons people will allways start but few will stay the course of training. Those that do are the ones that years later still train. The others well they went on to what they chose.

 

[Slihn]

From another thread.

Just curious as to why people think that students leave where they are at and go to new schools/teachers/arts?

The most common reason is because most people have unrealistic goals(due to Hollywood movies)and dont get the fast results that they expect.Many people only train 2 days a week in their Gym/Dojo/Dojan and do nothing else but expect to be master's of their art after only a month of training.That doesnt happen they get discouraged and then quit.This is truely sad occurance.Im sure that 200 or so years ago,when people where practicing Martial Arts for the very well being of their lives that they practiced more that 4 hours a week and they probably took the training very seriously because back then winning or losing a fight could be the differance between life or death,so they gave it all that they had back then and got great results.That intensity is not around anymore,many people dont train with much intensity but still expect the results of training in high intensity,they dont get those results, and soon quit giving up on the Martial Art saying that it is ineffective or further more criticizing the art.I've seen this happen on many occasions.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

in my experience, students leave when they don't have a sense of importance and belonging in the school.

i took over my studio from a guy who was running it as a mcdojo. i cut our number of dropouts down to one quarter, mostly by creating a sense of community: a leadership program, parties for the kids and youth, barbeque in the summer -- all sorts of stuff to make the place feel like a real family.

once the dojo is an extension of your home, you find reasons to stay rather than look for reasons to leave. if we lose someone who's been with us for more than a couple of months, it's almost always because they're moving away. come to think, i've had three students (or parents of students) tell me they considered moving, but stayed because of our program.

 

[beau_safken]

Life issues, School, commitments, relationships..any number of things.

 

[chinto01]

I think the hardest group to keep around are the junior high and high schoolers. This is due to the sports schedules and other life and school events. Hopefully they will someday return to continue their training.

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob