Where does your left foot point in a right-leg roundhouse kick?

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Do you like to train your kick (such as roundhouse kick, or side kick) when you pull your opponent's leading arm?

When you have chance to grab on your opponent's leading arm, do you want to

1. kick him?
2. punch him?
3. take him down?

My concern is if you can pull your opponent's arm, you can establish a clinch. I prefer to obtain that clinch than to land my kick on my opponent's body.

IMO, it makes sense to move from:

kicking range -> punching range -> clinch range

It doesn't make sense to move from:

clinching range -> kicking range

What's your opinion on this?

I think it's fine to prefer certain strategies, but you shouldn't limit yourself to one.

Grabbing an arm and pulling usually starts from punching range, not clinching range.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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Grabbing an arm and pulling usually starts from punching range, not clinching range.
It depends on how you may define "clinch range". I define "clinching range" starts from the "wrist grab". When fists are flying, even with the same distance, that's punching range. When arm contact arm, that's still punching range. In punching range, if your 1st grab is successful, the punching range then change into clinching range.
 
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Buka

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My foot goes to wherever it wants/needs, depending on the type of roundhouse, distance etc etc.
 
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It depends on how you may define "clinch range". I define "clinching range" starts from the "wrist grab". When fists are flying, even with the same distance, that's punching range. When arm contact arm, that's still punching range. In punching range, if your 1st grab is successful, the punching range then change into clinching range.

It's going to be very difficult to discuss range if the definition is fluid.

Definition of CLINCH

1: to hold an opponent (as in boxing) at close quarters with one or both arms
2: to hold fast or firmly

Simply grabbing their arm doesn't hold them firmly. They have a lot of direction they can move. A clinch implies close contact to control them. Simply grabbing their arm isn't a clinch. Grabbing their arm while pressing your hip or shoulder against them is closer. Usually a clinch involves underhooks or overhooks, and holding them against you so that they have no room to strike. None of this is true in the situation where you just grab someone's arm. They can still punch or kick you. You can still punch or kick them. It makes sense that this is then punching or kicking range.
 

drop bear

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About 10:45? Mabye. A little step pivot
It's faster, but with less weight behind it. More snap, less follow-through.

It's also a habit I try to break in my students, because they tend to drop their arm when they use it as a counter-weight.



I was.

You lean your body out of the way instead.
 

drop bear

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Do you like to train your kick (such as roundhouse kick, or side kick) when you pull your opponent's leading arm?

When you have chance to grab on your opponent's leading arm, do you want to

1. kick him?
2. punch him?
3. take him down?

My concern is if you can pull your opponent's arm, you can establish a clinch. I prefer to obtain that clinch than to land my kick on my opponent's body.

IMO, it makes sense to move from:

kicking range -> punching range -> clinch range

It doesn't make sense to move from:

clinching range -> kicking range

What's your opinion on this?

If you can get a free kick at someone's head. You should probably take it.
 
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If you can get a free kick at someone's head. You should probably take it.

If I'm pulling them into it, it's probably a body kick (or leg kick, which we don't do much of in TKD).
 

Kung Fu Wang

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Simply grabbing their arm doesn't hold them firmly.
But you can start your take down from there. You don't have to wait until you get a solid hold.

Here is an example.

my-slant-cut.gif


You can

- have a firm hold and then start your throw.
- start your throw when you think you will get a solid hold.

You will have a great chance that a wrist grab will give you a solid hold.

Here is an example. Will you say the clinch starts from the wrist grab, or the clinch starts from the head lock?

Pat-jump-head-lock-1.gif
 
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dvcochran

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I find the opposite. I find this acts as a counterweight to make the recoil faster, but by pulling your shoulder back, you're preventing your full weight from going into the kick.
I think a lot of that has to do with an air kick vs. a kick with resistance. I agree it is hard(er) returning an air kick for the reason you stated. It there is resistance, that should allow a full release of the kicks energy and allow for an easier return. One thing we coach is 'cranking' the shoulders forward and then cranking them back post impact. The shoulder and knee motion are very much in unison.
 

dvcochran

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I think it's fine to prefer certain strategies, but you shouldn't limit yourself to one.

Grabbing an arm and pulling usually starts from punching range, not clinching range.
I have seen both. One of my more consistent scoring kicks was backing out of a clinch and 'pulling' the lead arm down while throwing a roundhouse with the lead leg. Not as much power but a good tag. Had to be careful about pulling the arm though.
In regards to the standing foot, I would set it at 6:00 when doing step back kick.
 
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@Kung Fu Wang

The wrist grab is the entry to the clinch, but the clinch really starts at the headlock. I would say he's not clinched in the arm grab.
 

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Using the clock analogy (where 12:00 is forward, 6:00 backward, 9:00 is left and 3:00 is right), where does your left foot point when you roundhouse with the right leg?

Personally, I feel that kicks are best if your foot and knee are in line with the kick, and if your hips are square to the kick. It can be forward (with a front kick) or reverse (with a back kick), but always in line. Therefore, I prefer kicking with the left leg at 9:00 (maybe 8:00) for a roundhouse kick. Since the kick is traveling to the left, that puts everything in line with the power of the kick.

However, my Master has been teaching us recently to pivot all the way around to 6:00. I've noticed it does help with reach and height, and it does seem to whip my hips around. However, it also puts my shoulder into my line of sight (because my body is dropping back further to make up for my hips coming around), and I find it harder to balance than I did with my foot pointing in the direction of the kick, because I'm balancing the force on my foot's width instead of length.

For now, I'll do my kicks at 6:00 instead of 9:00, because that's how my Master wants them done. But I'm curious for your guys' thoughts on this.
I have always been pivoting full rotation. That is, 6:00 if I understand your analogy correctly. The reason for this is that it opens the hips up to kick with better mobility and height. I have always had trouble with my hips not being strong or flexible enough. Though I work on this extremely often, it is still one of my weak points. The full rotation is seen as correct technique in my Taekwondo club, and it has really helped me to compensate for my lack of hip flexibility when needing to kick at the heads of taller opponents.

I also believe to have heard that not doing full rotation can lead to knee injuries; as to how much of this is true, I am not 100% sure.
 

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My start was Japanese karate and that's how I learned to kick. Then in TKD I was taught to do them differently and managed to separate this in my mind. When hapkido entered my sphere I saw another approach to kicks. Some I could do okay and some gave me trouble. Eventually I just started letting the situation & requirements dictate how I threw the kicks. Not having normal spinal flexibility was my boogaboo. While not a natural athlete it all sort of "evened out" when I decided I'd do what I could and not worry about the rest.
 

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If I'm pulling them into it, it's probably a body kick (or leg kick, which we don't do much of in TKD).

There are these really awkward looking body leaned over head kick you can do from things like arm pulling.

Part of the appeal is they sort of shouldn't really happen the way they do.
 
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There are these really awkward looking body leaned over head kick you can do from things like arm pulling.

Part of the appeal is they sort of shouldn't really happen the way they do.

You know what, I was thinking if I'm pulling and kicking with the same arm. If I'm pulling with one arm and kicking the other, then a head kick is a lot easier.
 

drop bear

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You know what, I was thinking if I'm pulling and kicking with the same arm. If I'm pulling with one arm and kicking the other, then a head kick is a lot easier.

Yeah. Like a pump pretty much.
 

Acronym

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Like so much else, it depends. A head shot should pivot all the way around, at what you're referring to as 6 o'clock. As the target goes down, you will pivot less.
You will also find that pivoting changes distancing.

Hmmm....
 

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Using the clock analogy (where 12:00 is forward, 6:00 backward, 9:00 is left and 3:00 is right), where does your left foot point when you roundhouse with the right leg?

Personally, I feel that kicks are best if your foot and knee are in line with the kick, and if your hips are square to the kick. It can be forward (with a front kick) or reverse (with a back kick), but always in line. Therefore, I prefer kicking with the left leg at 9:00 (maybe 8:00) for a roundhouse kick. Since the kick is traveling to the left, that puts everything in line with the power of the kick.

However, my Master has been teaching us recently to pivot all the way around to 6:00. I've noticed it does help with reach and height, and it does seem to whip my hips around. However, it also puts my shoulder into my line of sight (because my body is dropping back further to make up for my hips coming around), and I find it harder to balance than I did with my foot pointing in the direction of the kick, because I'm balancing the force on my foot's width instead of length.

For now, I'll do my kicks at 6:00 instead of 9:00, because that's how my Master wants them done. But I'm curious for your guys' thoughts on this.

Here are my 5 cents..


If all you care about is banging a target as hard as possible, then maximum pivot =6:00 is best.

If you care about recovery and mobility, 3 to 4 clock.

I pivot differently depending on how hard I'm going.
 

Dirty Dog

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Yeah, I know. It's complicated.
You don't have to pivot as far on lower kicks. Neither do you lean. If you're still leaning way back, then you're not pivoting enough.
 
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