Where are the techniques?

Callen

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The WC Bong, Tang, Fu, Pak, ... are used for defense (to deflect a punch).
Many practitioners refer to the Wing Chun shapes as simply parts of a complete action, or an implementation of a concept. In this context Bong, Tan, Pak and Fuk etc... are not defensive hands that stand alone. It has been said that Wing Chun is to attack the attack, Lin Su Dai Da, combining attack and defense together in one action.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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Many practitioners refer to the Wing Chun shapes as simply parts of a complete action, or an implementation of a concept. In this context Bong, Tan, Pak and Fuk etc... are not defensive hands that stand alone. It has been said that Wing Chun is to attack the attack, Lin Su Dai Da, combining attack and defense together in one action.
The WC Pak Shou is to use your palm to push your opponent's punch side way (as used in the WC single sticky hand). Of course you can change your Pak Shou into a punch. But I won't call Pak Shou as offense move.

Some CMA systems are just too abstract. Some may say that a forward step can always be a kick. But a step is still a step. A kick is different from a step.

When you

- step, you are not training for your kick.
- use Pak Shou, you are not training for your punch.

WC-Pak-Shou.jpg
 

wckf92

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The WC Pak Shou is to use your palm to push your opponent's punch side way (as used in the WC single sticky hand). Of course you can change your Pak Shou into a punch. But I won't call Pak Shou as offense move.

Some CMA systems are just too abstract. Some may say that a forward step can always be a kick. But a step is still a step. A kick is different from a step.

When you

- step, you are not training for your kick.
- use Pak Shou, you are not training for your punch.

WC-Pak-Shou.jpg

That's a very narrow view you have. Yes, some of this discussion could be semantics, but if you think pak sau is to push something sideways.... Wow...
 

Flying Crane

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If you ask me "How to use Pak Shou in offense", and if I know how to do it (but I don't), I will

- get a partner,
- find a video camera,
- film it, and
- share that clip here.

How hard can that be?
That is irrelevant. Not everything that happens gets filmed and put on the internet. That is life.

If you are just asking if there are examples available, that is one thing.

But if you are pointing to a lack of video examples as proof that it does not happen, that is something else altogether.
 

Callen

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The WC Pak Shou is to use your palm to push your opponent's punch side way (as used in the WC single sticky hand). Of course you can change your Pak Shou into a punch. But I won't call Pak Shou as offense move.
That is one way to interpret the Pak Sau, another is to drive it forward offensively. Many practitioners also use it in an aggressively preemptive way, creating an interception that controls timing and can benefit distance management.

All of the Wing Chun shapes have offensive uses when they are part of a complete action, whether in-conjunction with a strike using the other hand, or utilizing concepts in the system such as chasing center, taking position, grounding, etc.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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That is irrelevant. Not everything that happens gets filmed and put on the internet. That is life.

If you are just asking if there are examples available, that is one thing.

But if you are pointing to a lack of video examples as proof that it does not happen, that is something else altogether.
If I think that I cannot use Pak Shou for offense and you think that you can, do you think it's your responsibility to prove it?
 

Flying Crane

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I thought we try to continue MA discussion and share information here.
Sure, but nobody has a responsibility or obligation to make a video to satisfy you.

Conversation can go: hey, can this happen?
Why yes, I do it all the time.
Well make a video and show me because I dont believe you.
Well, no, I am not inclined.
I dont believe you then.
Thats fine.

Some things are simply outside of your realm of experience. Nobody has an obligation to meet your demands to satisfy you. Maybe someday you will experience it. In the meantime, I see nothing wrong with accepting what those who are in the know, say about it.

You trained Wing Chun many many many many years ago, no longer do so, and tend to be derisive of it. You are not in the know.
 

Highlander

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For the record. I dont believe anyone is saying these moves cant be defensive. Just that they aren't simple blocking techniques. They run much deeper than that
 

Kung Fu Wang

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For the record. I dont believe anyone is saying these moves cant be defensive. Just that they aren't simple blocking techniques. They run much deeper than that
To push your opponent's leading arm to jam his own back arm and even push him back is common MA strategy. I don't call that offense strategy. I'll call that entering strategy.
 

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