Where are the techniques?

Highlander

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How will you use Fu Shou to hurt your opponent?


WC-Tan-Fu.jpg
How to you post pictures in a response like that. Tried to do it for my original response and couldn't quite figure it out.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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That's the other one I hit. Fook sao isn't a structure it's a verb. "To control from on top." So punching over someone's arm to hit them while keep a low heavy elbow to keep their arm pinned is fook (fu) sao.
Are you using the other hand to grab on your opponent's wrist?

- If yes, you should guide his arm away from your striking path so his face will expose more.
- If no, he can borrow your downward force, spin his arm into a hook punch.

IMO, to punch over someone's arm while using a low heavy elbow to keep his arm pinned is difficult to do if he tries to avoid arms contact.
 
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Highlander

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Are you using the other hand to grab on your opponent's wrist?

- If yes, you should guide his arm away from your striking path so his face will expose more.
- If no, he can move his arm away so the arm contact will no longer be there.

IMO, to punch over someone's arm while using a low heavy elbow to keep his arm pinned is difficult to do if he is good in hook punch. Your opponent can borrow your downward force, spin his arm (unless you can hold on his wrist with your other hand).
No, no grabbing of the wrist here. Just punching straight down the center line. This would be used against another straight punch. If it was a curved punch on a hook the technique changes.
What lineage of WT do you train?
 

Kung Fu Wang

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This would be used against another straight punch.
If your opponent is not another WC guy, when you use straight punch, he will use circular punch and the other way around. You can only have 2 options,

- to protect your center from inside out (WC strategy), or
- to protect your center from outside in (boxing strategy).
 

Highlander

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If your opponent is not another WC guy, when you use straight punch, he will use circular punch and the other way around. You can only have 2 options,

- to protect your center from inside out (WC strategy), or
- to protect your center from outside in (boxing strategy).
Yeah. I stick to the WT one for the most part
 

Highlander

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How will you use Fu Shou to hurt your opponent?


WC-Tan-Fu.jpg
Another way to hurt someone with Fook Sao would be to 'ground and pound'.
An old story I've heard about Leung Ting is when he was explaining this exact idea (verbs vs noun) he was talking about how the fook can be done in many ways. He then swept the demo partner and got on top of him and said. See..... I'm fooking him.
Good ol WT humor
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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Are you using the other hand to grab on your opponent's wrist?

- If yes, you should guide his arm away from your striking path so his face will expose more.
- If no, he can borrow your downward force, spin his arm into a hook punch.

IMO, to punch over someone's arm while using a low heavy elbow to keep his arm pinned is difficult to do if he tries to avoid arms contact.
Not practicing wing chun, just looking at that picture I can see the advantage there. It gives you the option to control the other persons arm, which gives you the advantage in an attack (if I remove your arm with my arm, in theory we both have one free arm. However, knowing that is my plan, I can attack first and put you on the defensive. Not knowing your arm is about to be removed, you have no choice but to react to my next attack)
 
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Dominic82555

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What has any of that to do with the fact that defense is an integral part of every system? All of them.
That's my point. No disrespect to the participants but I'm wondering where is the defensive moves? All I see is punch for punch, am I missing something or is this to acclimate you to getting hit???? In actuality, this would be a crap shoot smh
 

wckf92

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The WC Bong, Tang, Fu, Pak, ... are used for defense (to deflect a punch)..

A huge generalization. And inaccurate IMO.

They "can" be used for defense...but they are offensively applied (at least that's how I learned it)
 

Gerry Seymour

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- Wrestling is known for single leg and not for arm guide.
- Judo is known for leg lift (Uchi Mata) and not for ride on.
- ...
Yes, and I've already addressed that what an art is known for isn't an accurate summary of the art. Judo training involves a lot of learning how to maintain center/structure, how to defend grips, etc. Typically, we describe the most observable aspect. Defense is less overt, by nature.
 

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That's my point. No disrespect to the participants but I'm wondering where is the defensive moves? All I see is punch for punch, am I missing something or is this to acclimate you to getting hit???? In actuality, this would be a crap shoot smh
It is my experience that most Asian arts teach an exaggeration/stylized version of the defensive moves (at least as regards strikes/blocks). In practice, the principles are applied, rather than the simplistic blocks, so what happens in actual sparring can lack the visual cues you're looking for to recognize the defensive moves.

I've almost zero experience in WC (meaning, I've seen a few people do it, and played with a couple of guys who were well experienced), so I don't know if that's what happens with WC or not.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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Not practicing wing chun, just looking at that picture I can see the advantage there. It gives you the option to control the other persons arm, which gives you the advantage in an attack (if I remove your arm with my arm, in theory we both have one free arm. However, knowing that is my plan, I can attack first and put you on the defensive. Not knowing your arm is about to be removed, you have no choice but to react to my next attack)
- Your opponent punches.
- You use Fu Shou to block/deflect it.
- You then apply downward pressure and punch back with the same arm.
- Your opponent can uses WC Bon Shou to block/deflect it.

This is why I also asked whether you (general YOU) use the other hand to grab your opponent's wrist or not. If you do, you can pull and straight his arm so his arm cannot bend as Bon Shou. Your punch will have a much clear path to punch back.
 

Martial D

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The reason you see people just punching and getting hit in so many videos is because there is so much bad wt out there. Just like every other system the bad ugly practitioners seem to out weight the good ones. People either lack practice, understanding, or both. It could also be a lack of understanding the drill you're watching. My sifu actually use to have us run that same drill when I was starting out. Chain punch vs chain punch, just to build endurance and get use to getting hit

A great person to YouTube for all of these concepts would be Emin Boztepe.

I was right with you up to this point. That isn't the reason.

The reason is that 99% isn't trained realistically. You will never learn how to fight by practicing forms and doing chisau.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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In practice, the principles are applied, rather than the simplistic blocks, ...
Agree! For example, In the

- long fist system, your inside out block always follow by a grab and pull. If you can apply that principle, you are a good long fist fighter.
- WC system, your always block a punch by extending your arm from the center of your chest. If you can apply that principle, you are a good WC fighter.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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A huge generalization. And inaccurate IMO.

They "can" be used for defense...but they are offensively applied (at least that's how I learned it)
That's why I ask how to use Fu Shou, Pak Shou in offense. Could you put up a clip for this?

Any defense technique can be changed into offense technique. As long as when you use a technique for 100% defense at a particular moment, even if you can change it into offense 1/4 second later, it's still a defense technique at that moment.

For example, I can

- raise my knee to block a kick. I can then change my leg block into a roundhouse kick.
- use an inside out block to block a punch. I can then change my block into a straight punch.

Will you call my knee raising or inside out block a defense move, or an offense move?
 
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