When the kata is applied to self defense

[drop bear]

Long story short. The videos got me in trouble along with me asking questions in an effort to learn more about some of the traditional non fighting aspects of Kung Fu. I was kicked out of the school. True quote about the direction of my training and teaching "I focus too much of fighting." It's an odd thing to say to someone who trains how to use kung fu for self-defense. It's also a historical preservation as well. I'm not just learning how to fight but I'm also preserving the functionality of an "ancient" fighting system.

The good news is that the videos will come back along with some new ones as I'm no longer bound by the school that I was in.

Yep. But all of that is in the past now.

The full story is actually a really good one. I don't get many interesting stories like this in my life, but this one even had me surprised and honored. One of the things I really want to do is to get some video of me sparring with some of the people here in Martial Talk. I just have to remember which who spars to win so I don't get my head knocked off lol.

There are two types of martial artists. Those that spar to win and those that lie about it.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Can't say I'm really surprised. Maybe now you'll train in some MMA or Bjj? There's no issue with fighting in those martial arts.

Nope. I'm still Jow Ga all the way. I admit that the experience sucked and it took a long time for me to fight the bitterness that was trying to grow inside. But I did and I won. I didn't let it rot who I am.

I still train Jow Ga for practical use and that's just going to be my way to honor the system. Besides I'll get more satisfaction by doing Jow Ga and "beating" MMA and BJJ than joining those turkeys..

 

[JowGaWolf]

There are two types of martial artists. Those that spar to win and those that lie about it.

ha ha ha.. yeah you are on the top of my list. Don't spar with drop bear. I'll be trying something new and you'll take full advantage of that lol.

 

[drop bear]

Can't say I'm really surprised. Maybe now you'll train in some MMA or Bjj? There's no issue with fighting in those martial arts.

Sanda keep the kung fu vibe alive.

 

[drop bear]

ha ha ha.. yeah you are on the top of my list. Don't spar with drop bear. I'll be trying something new and you'll take full advantage of that lol.

We love people coming in to spar. And we are a small enough gym that we don't have a vegi patch.

Which means access to quality guys.

And my coach is an slippery gypsy counter fighter. Which basically is how gar.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Long story short. The videos got me in trouble along with me asking questions in an effort to learn more about some of the traditional non fighting aspects of Kung Fu. I was kicked out of the school. True quote about the direction of my training and teaching "I focus too much of fighting." It's an odd thing to say to someone who trains how to use kung fu for self-defense. It's also a historical preservation as well. I'm not just learning how to fight but I'm also preserving the functionality of an "ancient" fighting system.

The good news is that the videos will come back along with some new ones as I'm no longer bound by the school that I was in.

Yep. But all of that is in the past now.

The full story is actually a really good one. I don't get many interesting stories like this in my life, but this one even had me surprised and honored. One of the things I really want to do is to get some video of me sparring with some of the people here in Martial Talk. I just have to remember which who spars to win so I don't get my head knocked off lol.

Wait you got kicked out for that? Seriously?
Welp...time to start your own jow ga school

 

[JowGaWolf]

Wait, your JOWGa school actually kicked you out for posting those sparring videos? What the hell man.

If anything seeing it actually used for something would be good publicity wouldn't it?

I want to say that it was actually good publicity. Not sure if this is a good measure but after the videos got out a lot of Jow Ga people from China sent me friend requests lol. I've never had anyone outside of the school complain about the presentation of it with the music.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Wait you got kicked out for that? Seriously?
Welp...time to start your own jow ga school

Yes, but it's ok. I survived the bitterness and it doesn't bother me anymore. It has given me the opportunity to do more with my passion for Jow Ga and martial arts in general.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I want to say that it was actually good publicity. Not sure if this is a good measure but after the videos got out a lot of Jow Ga people from China sent me friend requests lol. I've never had anyone outside of the school complain about the presentation of it with the music.

So what exactly was the schools reasoning? Beyond "you fight too much"?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

True quote about the direction of my training and teaching "I focus too much of fighting."

You are not alone. I share the same experience as you have. When I and my students competed in Karate tournament back in the 70th (1973 - 1978), my long fist teacher also said that "I focus too much of fighting". But I don't regret a bit even today.

 

[Hanzou]

You are not alone. I share the same experience as you have. When I and my students competed in Karate tournament back in the 70th, my long fist teacher said that "I focus too much of fighting." But I don't regret a bit even today.

Absurd reasoning IMO. It isn't like you or Jowga are out in the streets picking fights with people. I think someone seeking the martial proficiency of their art should be applauded, not shunned.

 

[JR 137]

I know this is a reference but cant quite place it. Animal house?

Yes

 

[JowGaWolf]

So what exactly was the schools reasoning? Beyond "you fight too much"?

I was told that I didn't contribute to the school. After my wife was diagnosed with breast cancer, I stopped training and teaching at the school. My reasoning was that the cancer took priority as well as the bills that came with it. When I came back to the school I couldn't train 5 days a week like before. As much as I like kung fu and martial arts, those things are not "priority 1."

Some other things happened as well that lead up to my situation but were actions that were done to me and not me screwing up. As some of you know when I screw up I don't have any problem with giving an honest apology. In my opinion, after I returned to training at the school, it felt like they were trying to make me submit and be submissive to the leadership of the school. Culturally as a black person (history of slavery, segregation etc.) I don't handle that type of submission very well. I was raised to never be in this position. To me it felt like they wanted me to be mentally in this position. It no longer felt that I should be respectful, it felt like I should submit and worse of all, it felt like I was the only one being pushed to submit. There was more going on and I would have to write an article about it to cover it all. But this is how I felt. It felt like I couldn't be who I am as a person.

I do this in my family when I greet elders from my wife's side of the family and it never feels like submission. Keep in mind that all schools are not like this, some people get power hungry and feel the need to bend and break the will of a person. It's not just a kung fu thing.

 

[JowGaWolf]

my long fist teacher also said that "I focus too much of fighting". But I don't regret a bit even today.

I don't regret it either. I learned more about kung fu, peripheral vision, timing, body mechanics, human behavior, emotions, self-control, and focus by training to fight. Which is why I always say "The more I learn about fighting the less it becomes about fighting" Fighting is really a very small part in comparison to everything else that makes fighting effective.

You can put 2 people from the street in a ring and tell them to fight, and you can put 2 formally train fighters in the ring and those 2 fighters will tell anyone that there's more to it than just punching like 2 people from the street.

 

[oftheherd1]

The problem is there are just too many missing elements in the form.

When I learned long fist, I asked my long fist teacher what was the purpose of kick the leg back after kicking. He told me it can be used to kick someone's leg behind me. Since my opponent is a moving object and also I can't see behind, I didn't know how to use that technique. Until I started to learn Chinese wrestling, I then noticed that I have to control my opponent's upper body first before I can apply that "spring".

Can I learn how to control my opponent's upper body from the long fist system? I cannot because that training is missing in the long fist system. In a striking art, you just don't learn head lock, under hook, over hook, waist wrap, bear hug, ...

Did you ever consider that moving your leg back like that might increase the force of your strike: action and reaction?

In your second video, have you considered the pressure point at the elbow, near where your left hand is but using your right hand, and shifting your left hand to the pressure point on the back of the opponent's hand? That is best done as you see the arm coming in front of you face, but will still work.

BTW: Poor little puppy, just wanted to play.

One application that I have figured out myself from my form is to

- hold on my opponent's shirt.
- bend my leg and draw out a dagger from my boots.
- stab my dagger into my opponent's chest.

Did the form creator have this application in mind? I truly don't know.

In the TKD I studied, we had a move similar to that in one of the kata. However, the forward moving arm was with a spear hand, and I don''t remember for sure, but I think the arm across the chest might have been a fist. I think I see similarities.

I like your move and like more that you began learning alternative uses for your moves.

Thanks for the videos.

 

[oftheherd1]

If they are hidden in there, what use is it?

Can't argue with that. I have mentioned before I had a student who was a 4th Dan in TKD. Once I was teaching a Hapkido move and he got this funny look on his face, then explained. He recognized the move from a kata he had learned along the way. It seemed senseless with no discernible practical use, so he asked. He was told the old saw that it was part of the 'art' side of TKD. But he was able to recognize the technique I was teaching was actually that move in the kata that was explained as kata. That happened a couple of times.

I have a few times seen moves in kata that appear to have no practical use, except that I know techniques that start off with moves similar to that move. It usually appears to be a block leading to a grapple. But I can't confirm that is what it is.

So if it is hidden, that is incorrectly said to be art and of no other use, indeed what use is it.

 

[oftheherd1]

Rousing thread. Lots of great posts, great thoughts, lots of passion. Gotta' have passion in Martial Arts, just gotta'.

So many with so much knowledge. I love to listen to all of it.

I learned to apply my particular style of Karate to ground work. But was taught to by a ground guy. Helped me and mine a great deal. I highly recommend it.

And, Hanzou, you are like a fine spice rack in a great kitchen. I could cook perfectly fine without you, but why the hell would I?

As @Steve said, I also like the way you word things, and the often little pearls of wisdom hidden in them (sort of like hidden moves in kata?).

Your last sentence in the above post is classic Buka. Thanks. It put a big smile on my face to start my day.

 

[Hanzou]

Nope. I'm still Jow Ga all the way. I admit that the experience sucked and it took a long time for me to fight the bitterness that was trying to grow inside. But I did and I won. I didn't let it rot who I am.

I still train Jow Ga for practical use and that's just going to be my way to honor the system. Besides I'll get more satisfaction by doing Jow Ga and "beating" MMA and BJJ than joining those turkeys..

If your goal is to beat a high ranking Bjj or MMA exponent, you will need to lay off the form/kata practice. It won't do you any favors.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Not me but our forms do have recovery aspects.

It was a guess. My memory sucks.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Sometime we may give too much credit to the original form creator. The following is one of my favor jokes.

A: Dear master, when you did your form at the 8th move, you move your hip a bit side way. Is there any secret application for that?
B: A bee just landed on my hip and I tried to get ride of it.
A: ...

I think we often give too much credit to our progenitors in traditional(ish) arts. We forget they mostly weren't wizened old veterans when they put together the curriculum their first students learned from, and there were things they taught that they later decided weren't so good. And sometimes, they were just plain human.