When is prior drug use OK in a post-Obama world?

[Bill Mattocks]

Didn't the previous president use cocaine in his younger years?

Common wisdom says yes, but he never admitted it. There is a difference. One could not point at President Bush and say "He admitted using drugs, so why can't I get a job interview due to my prior drug use?"

If it wasn't a problem then, don't make a problem out of it now.

Tell that to the Marine who cannot get a federal job due to his admitted former drug use, which was prior to even his military career, and which our own president admits to doing. Tell him "don't make a problem out of it."

 

[Gordon Nore]

Common wisdom says yes, but he never admitted it. There is a difference. One could not point at President Bush and say "He admitted using drugs, so why can't I get a job interview due to my prior drug use?"

Tell that to the Marine who cannot get a federal job due to his admitted former drug use, which was prior to even his military career, and which our own president admits to doing. Tell him "don't make a problem out of it."

I'm with you on this, Bill. What bothers me about this story is that the young former marine might have gotten the job had he lied. I'm sure people have said this to him. Instead he suffers for being a stand-up guy who tells the truth.

Interesting that President Obama's past marijuana use has come up in your analysis. Of the many reservations that have come up regarding his candidacy for the Democratic nomination, the presidency, as well as his first controversial months in office, his past "toking" doesn't seem to have been a deal-breaker. It seems to me his admission got less ink than when Governor Clinton acknowledging having tried it -- without inhaling or enjoying it.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Interesting that President Obama's past marijuana use has come up in your analysis. Of the many reservations that have come up regarding his candidacy for the Democratic nomination, the presidency, as well as his first controversial months in office, his past "toking" doesn't seem to have been a deal-breaker. It seems to me his admission got less ink than when Governor Clinton acknowledging having tried it -- without inhaling or enjoying it.

I took it to mean that times had changed. From the last days of pot-smoking being a show stopper (Bork) to the "didn't inhale" of Bill Clinton, to the alleged coke use by George Bush, and finally to the new President who openly admitted both pot and coke use in his book.

However much I disagree with drug use, I put that to one side - if society has changed, it has changed. Since it was not an issue in the campaign or election, it should not be an issue.

But this Marine can't even be considered for a job that an admitted former pot-smoker is the boss of, for doing exactly what the boss did.

What's up with that?

 

[Carol]

But this Marine can't even be considered for a job that an admitted former pot-smoker is the boss of, for doing exactly what the boss did.

What's up with that?

The Marine doesn't get his job by popular vote. The boss does.

 

[arnisador]

What bothers me about this story is that the young former marine might have gotten the job had he lied.

He might have gotten a medical license if he had lied about having gone to medical school. So, lying can get you things? Is this news?

There's nothing in the constitution to prevent a convicted murderer from being elected president. If that happened, would we want convicted murderers working as federal LEOs?

 

[Steve]

FWIW, my opinion on this topic is that the marine got screwed by hypocrisy. Not, however, by the hypocrisy of having a CiC who admits to having smoked pot in the past. Rather, it's the hypocrisy of a society where people can self righteously talk about how bad pot is over a beer at the local watering hole.

Until we stop this irrational prohibition on marijuana, we're going to continue to have these ridiculous scenarios play out. According to the NIDA, about 98 million Americans over age 12 have tried marijuana and 14 million within the month before being asked. If you speculate about how many lied about it, you come up with a higher figure.

Other sources put marijuana use at about 40%, which I'd say is very believable.

Point being that many people use it. While many of those kids will go on to lives of mediocrity, a significant percentage will rise to positions of responsibility, power, or influence. To suggest that they be disqualified for expirementing with marijuana is ridiculous.

Abuse of any substance, whether it's alcohol, marijuana, gambling or MMORPGs is bad, and THAT should be the standard by which we qualify or disqualify otherwise viable candidates for positions in law enforcement.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

The Marine doesn't get his job by popular vote. The boss does.

Technically, no. The boss got his job by Electoral College votes. However, I take your point.

I still see it as hypocrisy.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

There's nothing in the constitution to prevent a convicted murderer from being elected president. If that happened, would we want convicted murderers working as federal LEOs?

If that happened, all bets would be off. There are few things that would make me rethink my desire to remain in the USA as a loyal citizen - that might be one of them. What ya'll do after that is your bidness - I'd be in tall timber and gone. Come get me, at that point, because America is over.

 

[zDom]

Honesty from Barack Obama, dishonesty from George Bush...a pattern is beginning to emerge!

This is what you get with popular election* of the president. He who gets the most votes wins. The public has made a statement with the past three presidents that they're not as hung up about drug usage as the media portrays them to be.


*Yes, of course I know about the electoral college. Sheesh!

A) You REALLY think Obama is honest, eh? Interesting.

B)

Bush vs Kerry:

Popular*vote:
62,040,610 Bush (50.7%)
59,028,444 Kerry (48.3%)

Obama vs McCain

Popular*vote
69,456,897 Obama (52.9%)
59,934,814 McCain (45.7%)



So.. what was your point again? Oh wait — are you bringing up the Bush vs Gore thing from 2000? STILL? Really?

While we are hijacking threads, I'm wondering: how many of those additional 10.4 MILLION voters the Democrats found are actually living, breathing voters who are citizens of the United States and only cast a single vote

Bah, nevermind. Raving Democrats are bad losers and worse winners. You Dem-Obama worshipers now RUN the country: think you can put your Bush bashing sticks up already?

And don't bother launching an anti-Repub missle at me: I'm neither Repub NOR Dem —*I realize they are ALL crooks and ALL liars.

 

[Steve]

So, Scott, I hope I don't come off as raving, but what do you have to say about the actual topic of the thread? I mean, if you have time in between anti Obama rants.

 

[arnisador]

FWIW, my opinion on this topic is that the marine got screwed by hypocrisy. Not, however, by the hypocrisy of having a CiC who admits to having smoked pot in the past. Rather, it's the hypocrisy of a society where people can self righteously talk about how bad pot is over a beer at the local watering hole.

Until we stop this irrational prohibition on marijuana, we're going to continue to have these ridiculous scenarios play out. According to the NIDA, about 98 million Americans over age 12 have tried marijuana and 14 million within the month before being asked.

The comparisons to alcohol are on target, but the point that a near-majority of Americans have tried it is the bigger one to my mind. Criminalizing that behavior, esp. in light of the alcohol issue, is unworkable.

I'm neither Repub NOR Dem —*I realize they are ALL crooks and ALL liars.

Same here, dude. Don't blame me: I voted for George Bush (the senior, not the junior). But while I agree with Kaith (on another thread) that Ronald Reagan's presidency worked out better than expected, George Bush the Younger was a disaster.

 

[zDom]

So, Scott, I hope I don't come off as raving, but what do you have to say about the actual topic of the thread? I mean, if you have time in between anti Obama rants.

I think disqualifying someone for a job based on having Touched the Great Taboo is wrong. Lotta hypocrisy woven into the fabric of the War on Drugs.

I don't find fault in Obama for having tried used pot — and like that he doesn't deny or downplay it like Bush and Clinton.

 

[chrispillertkd]

If the boss can have smoked the ganga in the past and be OK, then so can the troops. Or it's double-standard ********, IMHO.

The man did cocaine, by his own admission, not just marijuana.

Pax,

Chris

 

[Bruno@MT]

The comparisons to alcohol are on target, but the point that a near-majority of Americans have tried it is the bigger one to my mind. Criminalizing that behavior, esp. in light of the alcohol issue, is unworkable.

Half the population? Really?
A percentage perhaps. But I find it hard to believe that near half of all living breathing americans have tried it. Are there official numbers?

 

[cdunn]

Half the population? Really?
A percentage perhaps. But I find it hard to believe that near half of all living breathing americans have tried it. Are there official numbers?

From the US Dept. Of Health and Human Services Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration:

Aged 12 or Older, Percentages, Lifetime 2008:

Marijuana and Hashish: 41.0% (102,404,000 persons)
Cocaine: 14.7%
Hallucinogens: 14.4%
Rx Pain Relievers: 13.3

 

[Ping898]

The FBI will kick you out or not let you in if you've ever have even been arrested for a DUI, convicted or not. The last pres had several DUIs. The same standard could be applied here as with the pot. Course then the government looks bad when an agent in an FBI car goes out drinking and then crashes said government car.

Illegal is illegal, I don't care if you are a stupid kid of not, don't care if someone else in the chain of command has done it or not. Good for the Marine for serving his country, I will gladly admit he did things to keep this country safe that I did not and could not, but I am also fine with him getting turned down for the US Marshals. And consequently on he could have just lied, he would have been caught and the consequences worse for lying, either during his background investigation or his poly. There are other equally as important jobs he can get even with his past drug use.

 

[Steve]

Illegal is illegal, I don't care if you are a stupid kid of not, don't care if someone else in the chain of command has done it or not. Good for the Marine for serving his country, I will gladly admit he did things to keep this country safe that I did not and could not, but I am also fine with him getting turned down for the US Marshals. And consequently on he could have just lied, he would have been caught and the consequences worse for lying, either during his background investigation or his poly. There are other equally as important jobs he can get even with his past drug use.

You ever jaywalk? Go 10 or more mph over the speed limit? Are you suggesting that you have never broken a law in your life? I find that hard to believe.

 

[Ping898]

You ever jaywalk? Go 10 or more mph over the speed limit? Are you suggesting that you have never broken a law in your life? I find that hard to believe.

Nope and I never suggested I did. I have paid the price for every illegal offense I've ever done that I've been caught at or needed to own up to, as this guy needed to and did on his application.

More specifically my actions, even from the time I was just a stupid kid, as people keep saying this guy at 19 was, were done with the full recognition that there may be consequences I don't know of in the future. So everytime I get asked in an investigation or in a poly about alcohol and drug use, I have no issues, because with respect to what my employers ask about, I have never done anything outside the bounds of the law.

 

[geezer]

[quote=Ping898;1236163]Nope and I never suggested I did. I have paid the price for every illegal offense I've ever done that I've been caught at... quote]

Ping, I think this gets to the heart of the matter. You paid what you accept as a fair price for any illegal acts you did (or at least were "caught at"). But sometimes our legal system gets out of synch with changing social mores. Sometimes "the consequences" no longer fit the illegal act. Imagine a year in jail fo jaywalking or capital punishment for a dui. Or, returning to the real world... some of our drug laws today. Many would say that the laws need changing... and in time I think they will get changed.

To Bill, I would say that of the last three presidents, all of whom apparently used drugs, Obama earned my respect when, like the Marine in question, he was honest about this mistake of his past. He spoke the truth on this issue and threw the matter to the voters. Like the marine, being open on this matter could have cost him his job. But unlike the marine, the commitee responsible for approving the President, that is to say the electorate, approved him for the job. Sorry if that bugs you.

Anyway, it all just points out that we, as a society, are still going through changes of attitude on this and other social issues. I expect that in another decade or so we will find that our collective position on drugs will have changed quite a bit. In the meantime, if you are looking for instances of hypocracy and injustice and the military, how about "Don't ask, don't tell". A lot of gays have lost their military jobs without doing anything illegal. At least Obama has said he plans to redress that wrong. We will see.

 

[Steve]

The implication is that the laws that you broke are okay. You're also implying that you, at 19 and continuing, considered all of the possible ramifications of your actions. Once again, I have a hard time believing that. I don't know what you've actually done, but I'd wager that you did some things in your past that you regret... maybe even made a mistake or two. I know I have. Or maybe you haven't.

The key here is that you have no issues because you've been lucky enough that all of your acts of stupidity happen to have been things that your employers have either not asked about or not cared about. At some point, that might change and then... you WOULD have issues.