What is going on in Mexico? Out of control drug war. Mexican troops cross border into US.

Makalakumu

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I found these two articles interesting.

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2010/03/15/world/international-uk-mexico-usa-murders.html

CIUDAD JUAREZ, Mexico (Reuters) - The killing of three people linked to the U.S. consulate in Mexico's bloodiest drug war hotspot has thrown President Felipe Calderon a major test as he heads to this border city on Tuesday to try to contain spiralling violence.

Suspected drug hitmen killed an American woman working at the consulate in Ciudad Juarez, just over the border from El Paso, Texas, and her U.S. husband on Saturday as they left a children's birthday party. A Mexican man married to another consulate employee was killed around the same time in another part of the city after he and his wife left the same event.

And this from the same article

Deeply concerned about the violence, Washington is spending hundreds of millions of dollars to help train Mexican police and provide helicopters and equipment to fight drug gangs.

But across Mexico, drug violence is at its worst level ever. Nearly 19,000 people have been killed since Calderon came to power in 2006, and many U.S. students have heeded warnings not to cross the border this year for their annual "spring break" vacation.

Mexican anti-drug officials defend the army-backed strategy and told Reuters that the focus remained on using the 8,000 troops and federal police on the streets of Ciudad Juarez to crush drug cartels. Calderon is expected to meet the U.S. consul in Ciudad Juarez on Tuesday and try to reassure local residents he is fighting the violence, but little more.

19,000 people have been killed! The US is pouring in hundreds of millions of dollars and equipment!

And now we see this...

http://www.krgv.com/mostpopular/sto...ter-Spotted-in-US/XzvlDLEthUS6M_NfPEGvew.cspx

FALCON HEIGHTS - A Mexican navy helicopter was seen doing surveillance in Starr County.

Residents of Falcon Heights, about 14 miles away from Roma, noticed a Mexican helicopter hovering over a home shortly after 6 p.m. Tuesday night.

Witnesses say the helicopter hovered for about 15 minutes over a house where a known criminal used to live.

Zapata County Sheriff Sigifredo Gonzalez Jr. says, "They had armored individuals in the chopper, open ramp, very military looking, in style and preparation."

Armed Mexican troops entering our country in response to the all out war taking place south of the border. I read about this and was thunderstruck. Americans need to know what is happening in Mexico!

Your thoughts?
 

chaos1551

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Yeah, I have a thought. Stop the drug war. Regulate, don't prohibit, any drugs that are less dangerous than any already legally regulated (e.g. alcohol and tobacco).

These issues in Mexico are largely fueled by American backfire regulation on drugs.
 

CoryKS

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Yeah, I have a thought. Stop the drug war. Regulate, don't prohibit, any drugs that are less dangerous than any already legally regulated (e.g. alcohol and tobacco).

These issues in Mexico are largely fueled by American backfire regulation on drugs.

I wonder though if even legalizing and regulating would do the trick. Regulation and taxation mean that any product you could buy legally would likely cost more than what they're paying now and the infrastructure is already in place for illegal distribution, so why would they stop? As I understand it, there's a market on the east coast for cigarettes and alcohol that come from states with lesser tax rates, isn't there?
 

Carol

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I wonder though if even legalizing and regulating would do the trick. Regulation and taxation mean that any product you could buy legally would likely cost more than what they're paying now and the infrastructure is already in place for illegal distribution, so why would they stop? As I understand it, there's a market on the east coast for cigarettes and alcohol that come from states with lesser tax rates, isn't there?

OMG, the retail economy in my city is booming. I live in NH on the Mass. border. A pack of smokes that costs $6.50 in my city costs $8.75 in Mass. Beer is $1-2 cheaper per six pack, and we have 0% sales tax where Mass. increased their sales tax from 5.0 to 6.25% in 2009. Go to the mall, the grocery store, the stripmall plaza, or the car dealerships that are within a mile of Mass. and you'll find countless cars with Mass. plates.
 
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Makalakumu

Makalakumu

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Anyway, this insanity is spilling over the border and into our country. I wonder how many murders in border cities are related to the Mexican War?
 

Omar B

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I wonder though if even legalizing and regulating would do the trick. Regulation and taxation mean that any product you could buy legally would likely cost more than what they're paying now and the infrastructure is already in place for illegal distribution, so why would they stop? As I understand it, there's a market on the east coast for cigarettes and alcohol that come from states with lesser tax rates, isn't there?

You make a point. Or one could ask, is the high price of say weed a result of it's relative scarcity as compared to what could actually be produced? During prohibition those who still drank alcohol did so at a premium because they were not only paying for the manufacture and distribution, but the many middle men with holes to hide it it, the people who risk life and limb to get it to the consumer. Much of it had to be braught in at risk or produced here at risk, quality was low because it was made in bathtubs and not distilleries.

This illegal infrastructure exists because these guy's can't have a regular trucking company transport goods they can't call the cops if their goods are stolen, they can't talk to local government about someone setting up a similar service within their area.
 
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Makalakumu

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Does anyone have a problem with the Mexican military entering our borders? It's like the US with Pakistan in some ways.
 

Carol

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Juarez is definitely the hot spot. This is something that I've been watching very closely because I do a lot of work with our customers in Mexico. My job is tied directly with their success.

Juarez is probably the most violent city in the world right now. It is a large city. Naturally Mexico City is much larger, but that is located well beneath the U.S. border. Juarez is over 2 million people, where El Paso on the opposite side of the border is about 500,000. That is a bit...lopsided, eh? As far as I know, Juarez is the largest city that sits on an international border.

I posted this in early 2009, that may offer some more detail.

What's on the other side of El Paso?
 

CoryKS

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Does anyone have a problem with the Mexican military entering our borders? It's like the US with Pakistan in some ways.

Very much so. But is anyone going to do anything about it? Given the touchy nature of the debates regarding both the drug trade and illegal immigration, people get nervous about the prospect of sending troops to the border. It seems so... right-wing.
 

Bob Hubbard

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Wonder what the fall out would be if someone put a few rounds into that copter......
 

Carol

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Weird? I don't know about that. There are definitely dynamics involved that wouldn't be a factor if they were not our geographic neighbors.

Complex, definitely.
 

Cryozombie

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Does anyone have a problem with the Mexican military entering our borders? It's like the US with Pakistan in some ways.

Nah man, see, Mexican Nationals coming across the border in violation of our laws is always ignored... its RACIST to try and make them follow our laws, dontcha know. So as long as its the MEXICAN military... shame on you for saying anything.
 

Archangel M

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Sometimes pilots cross borders without knowing it. There are no lines drawn on the earth like you see on maps. If this was an intentional incursion out gvt should be knocking some heads together.
 

Carol

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Sometimes pilots cross borders without knowing it. There are no lines drawn on the earth like you see on maps. If this was an intentional incursion out gvt should be knocking some heads together.

It may also be that we are consulting with the Mexican military (that likely know more specifics about some of the issues) to assist with the issues that have been leaking in to El Paso from Juarez.

This is just a guess though, I'm not sure of the details. I'm having trouble enough figuring out what time it is in which city right now. :rolleyes:
 

5-0 Kenpo

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I call BS. Mexico has a Navy. PLEASE!!! :)


Seriously, our cops and Border Patrol have been getting into cross-border shootouts with the Mexican military and police for years. The Mexican military has been complicite in the drug trade into the U.S. for a very long time. I was reading articles about this back in the 80's. There have been reports of military convoys assisting these drug dealers.

I don't know why our government is acting so put out now....
 

GHETTO NINJA

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as long as americans love the stuff thats getting sent from over there to the states , i dont think theres nothing that can stand in there way its to much money involved seems like a the mexican milatary is a joke to the cartels but either way they kill em or flip em : but there not a problem so it seems , chapo guzman is even on the forbes list ...
 
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Makalakumu

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as long as americans love the stuff thats getting sent from over there to the states , i dont think theres nothing that can stand in there way its to much money involved seems like a the mexican milatary is a joke to the cartels but either way they kill em or flip em : but there not a problem so it seems , chapo guzman is even on the forbes list ...

Yeah, isn't that crazy. Mexico is a total Narco-State. Decriminalization would destroy their economy.
 

chaos1551

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I wonder though if even legalizing and regulating would do the trick. Regulation and taxation mean that any product you could buy legally would likely cost more than what they're paying now and the infrastructure is already in place for illegal distribution, so why would they stop? As I understand it, there's a market on the east coast for cigarettes and alcohol that come from states with lesser tax rates, isn't there?

I understand your point, and I'm no economic export, but it seems to me things would be different than you surmise.

If taxation would increase the cost, the illegality would continue, for one, so there would be no point in legalizing it for the only reason it could foreseeably ever be legalized in the US.

For two, supply will decrease demand and price will go down. Here in Montana, medical marijuana is legal. Supply has gone up because of it. Price has been cut in half. This is still untaxed black market money, but I seriously doubt the price would go up in the event of decriminalization and regulation. YOU COULD GROW IT YOURSELF. That's just one drug, but there is a lot of money in that one drug.

Three, in your example people are still paying taxes on the bootlegged cigarettes and alcohol. They are not buying it illegally off a black market that funds gangs and terrorists. And recent history shows that when the bootlegging becomes a problem, law enforcement steps up, setting up stings and gaining restitution and traction through fines. At a point, it becomes safer and more lucrative (for lack of a better word) to just pay your own state's taxes.

To the OP, I stand by my assertion that our non-immigration related problems with our neighbors to the south will decrease dramatically with a decriminialization of drugs in the US. I really like the video Omar linked as well. That guy was spot on.
 

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