When does rank become meaningless?

[andyjeffries]

For korean martial arts, 6th Dans should be in their prime, where everything comes together, and where everything you do seems to work.

That helps to demonstrate my point further. If the average skill level of 6th Dans is much higher (because that's the prime time) then surely a mediocre (average for 6th dans) is better than a "solid" lower dan (where the average skill level is lower).

 

[Kinghercules]

In my opinion, rank becomes insignificant at black belt, because then you are open to all methods of training and techniques.

Also, I lost all interest in rank two years ago when I was 16. Everyone was talking about testing one day and something just snapped in my mind "What's the point? I'm still going to be learning the same stuff and training the same way. Really rank just gives me a higher spot in line".

And that is why I have not obtained my TKD third degree yet. For a good year or two I didn't even have the desire to test ( midterm ). Actually I still don't, I just want my third before I go off to college just to tell people I have it.

However, I can't imagine becoming a white belt again. I know i will have to at some point when I start a new art...but I'll hate not being able to do what the black belts are doing.

For us we were always told that training begins once we reach BB.
And after training at BB level for a year I began to understand why my teach said that.
We were always learning new things.

 

[Kinghercules]

Rank or the pursuit there of should be important becasue it requires additional training maintianing health and continued education. Our GM stressed that you should never stop learning till the day you die. I see to many over 40 to 60 giving up to pain and bad health. To many times saying it dosn't matter anymore is do to being to out of shape or motivated to train. If sport and jumping like a kid was all you had then rank has no motivation. Self healing injuries and other issues should be part of higher rank. I want to teach when I am 90 should I live that long.

Given the business side of TKD rank is everything related to marketing inflating rank any way possible ive have seen 4th dans run to USAT or others to get a 7th Dan and call themselves GM's so they can attract more paying customers even 1st Dans going out and creating the illusion of higher rank to operate thier own Dojangs.

Who signed your higher rank should also matter

I completely agree with you. I always ask ppl who they have trained under. I think lineage is important. It should be solid. Not iffy or sketchy.

 

[puunui]

That helps to demonstrate my point further. If the average skill level of 6th Dans is much higher (because that's the prime time) then surely a mediocre (average for 6th dans) is better than a "solid" lower dan (where the average skill level is lower).

6th dan should still be relatively in one's physical prime so I do believe that skill level should be greater than a 3rd dan, unless you have elite athletes which skew the scale somewhat. But even that there shouldn't be an extremely huge discrepancy.

 

[Kinghercules]

I'm currently training for my 7th dan test in a few weeks. My instructors are finally moving up to eighth dan, so my group can move on up. We do have serious curriculum for each dan level and I have put in a LOT of work for the past 18 months getting ready for this. Many of my peers are in need of surgery after this test to repair the damage done in training for it. BTW, I am not trying to brag about that fact nor do I feel it's anything I SHOULD brag about. It's just that I feel that rank only means as much as how hard you have to work for it. I have been doing mostly two-a-days for the last year, really strict on my nutrition, doing weight training, cardio, ect. and am expected by my instructors to be in my all time best shape for my test.

Our curriculum is diverse enough that if it weren't for testing, I slack on certain parts of the training. I work my grappling and MMA all the time unless injured. I will work my kickboxing and boxing at least a few times a week when not testing, and even work on my TKD kicking and even forms at least once a week. When I don't have testing coming up, I never seem to find the time to work on the weapons that are part of our curriculum with some exception to the escrima/arnis stick and knife work and even that part is no where near the level of some of our other guys. Until testing was on the horizon, I probably hadn't practiced with a bo staff in 5-6 years (and Tadashi Yamashita is judging our Kobudo...no pressure). I'm a training fanatic for the most part and have placed/won medals in No-Gi Competition in the Expert or Black Belt divisions at one world grappling championship and two world jiu-jitsu championships over the past two years despite being the oldest fighter in my division every time I fight by several years. But my KJN's expect us to be able to box like a boxer, kickbox like a Muay Thai fighter, grapple at least to BJJ purple belt standards, tie it all together and do ground striking like an MMA fighter, do stick and knife work like a very good Escrimador, and have at least good basic Kobudo skills.

Man, I am tired. But, the way I have pushed myself for this, I will be very proud of this rank. However, I know to my students and their families (or potential students in the future), all that matters to them is what I can do for them or their children. And IMO, that is how it should be.

What style is this that you are testing at 7th dan?

I was always told that at that level ppl dont test for it (at lest in the Korean arts).
My teacher trained and taught for over 30yrs under GM Ki Whang Kim and when he was promoted to 6th dan he didnt test for it.
From my understanding, if you're not teaching whats the reason for being promoted passed 5th?

 

[puunui]

What style is this that you are testing at 7th dan? I was always told that at that level ppl dont test for it (at lest in the Korean arts). My teacher trained and taught for over 30yrs under GM Ki Whang Kim and when he was promoted to 6th dan he didnt test for it.

The Kukkiwon has dan testing up through 9th Dan.

From my understanding, if you're not teaching whats the reason for being promoted passed 5th?

I would say if someone never produced even one black belt, then there is no reason to promote that person past 4th Dan. 4th Dan through 6th Dan are instructor ranks, where one learns how to teach.

 

[mastercole]

When does rank become meaningless? Usually we hear of people saying this, but I think that it comes mainly from those with higher rank. For beginners, obviously rank has meaning, because beginners often times only get to learn material that the teacher deems appropriate for that particular rank. Is there a point where rank becomes meaningless? If so, when is that point?

It becomes meaningless two ways.

One is when you realize that your big seniors could care less about Dan rank and that they base everything on who you are and what you do for Taekwondo.

The other is when you don't have any relationship with your big seniors. Some people go chasing the next big Dan promotion and somehow think they are senior to people in groups they have no relationship with, but actually they are not, because their Dan was meaningless when they got it through some other channel other than their big seniors.

 

[Kinghercules]

The Kukkiwon has dan testing up through 9th Dan.




I would say if someone never produced even one black belt, then there is no reason to promote that person past 4th Dan. 4th Dan through 6th Dan are instructor ranks, where one learns how to teach.

I agree with you on that but I guess most ppl dont see it that way.