What would you do?

[chinto01]

This is for all of the instructors out there. I have a student with whom I have been working with over the last year. This student chooses to come only once a week and puts in no extra effort to make other classes or practice at home. He is close to his next promotion however, after being told what he needs to do for it he has not done anything. When I approached him at his last class his comment to me was that he was not in a rush. That being said what do you think I should do? Am I wasting my time on him or should I keep pushing or do I give him minimal attention at class and focus on the others?

In the spirit of Bushido!

Rob

 

[Sapper6]

This is for all of the instructors out there. I have a student with whom I have been working with over the last year. This student chooses to come only once a week and puts in no extra effort to make other classes or practice at home. He is close to his next promotion however, after being told what he needs to do for it he has not done anything. When I approached him at his last class his comment to me was that he was not in a rush. That being said what do you think I should do? Am I wasting my time on him or should I keep pushing or do I give him minimal attention at class and focus on the others?

In the spirit of Bushido!

Rob

is this student there on his own motivation (or lack thereof) or enrolled because someone told him to (parents)? i would definitely have a more indepth talk with the student. i think one of our jobs as instructors is to inspire the student to do more, to be better. let them know of the untapped potential they possess and that it takes dedication and hard work. as for the promotion: my idea of promotion is an upgrading of level/proficiency based upon material/curriculum previously met to standard. what is your standard (no need to answer this)? has he met your standard? if not, a promotion is not warranted. i wouldn't say give him any less attention at this point. don't give up on this student prematurely. exhaust ALL of your own efforts. when they don't work, a serious heart-to-heart is in order. don't hold it against him that he's only making one class per week. maybe that's all he can squeeze in. as for the lack of practicing on his own: reinstill in him the notion that perfect practice makes perfect and that he's perfectly able to excell but the large part is up to him. try to find out why this student is lacking motivation, see if you can help with that. if it's pure laziness, emplore him to join a chess club.

good luck :asian:

 

[MJS]

This is for all of the instructors out there. I have a student with whom I have been working with over the last year. This student chooses to come only once a week and puts in no extra effort to make other classes or practice at home. He is close to his next promotion however, after being told what he needs to do for it he has not done anything. When I approached him at his last class his comment to me was that he was not in a rush. That being said what do you think I should do? Am I wasting my time on him or should I keep pushing or do I give him minimal attention at class and focus on the others?

In the spirit of Bushido!

Rob

How old is this student? Upon first reading, it would appear that this student has no desire to train. I'm a believer that if someone is forced to do something they do not want to do, they are not going to be putting forth the effort to train. As far as rank goes, that also falls into my category of forcing someone. Now, I'm not saying that this is whats happening here, but some people are not as concerned with rank as much as others are. I'm not sure how your school runs, but with most schools, you'll find that they have an estimated time frame in which the student is able to advance. However, everyone is different so if it was to take 1 1/2 months for student A to move from white to yellow, student B might take 2 mos. If he is not ready, then he should not test.

It might be a good idea to sit down privately with this student and find out exactly what his goals in training are. Sometimes having a pep talk with someone can give them a differen outlook.

Good luck and let us know how it goes!

Mike

 

[Gojugeezer]

This is for all of the instructors out there. I have a student with whom I have been working with over the last year. This student chooses to come only once a week and puts in no extra effort to make other classes or practice at home. He is close to his next promotion however, after being told what he needs to do for it he has not done anything. When I approached him at his last class his comment to me was that he was not in a rush. That being said what do you think I should do? Am I wasting my time on him or should I keep pushing or do I give him minimal attention at class and focus on the others?

In the spirit of Bushido!

Rob

Say to him "do you get a full weeks wages for doing nothing"? I wouldn't grade him at all, but then the only place successs comes before work, is in the dictionary!

 

[chinto01]

How old is this student? Upon first reading, it would appear that this student has no desire to train. I'm a believer that if someone is forced to do something they do not want to do, they are not going to be putting forth the effort to train. As far as rank goes, that also falls into my category of forcing someone. Now, I'm not saying that this is whats happening here, but some people are not as concerned with rank as much as others are. I'm not sure how your school runs, but with most schools, you'll find that they have an estimated time frame in which the student is able to advance. However, everyone is different so if it was to take 1 1/2 months for student A to move from white to yellow, student B might take 2 mos. If he is not ready, then he should not test.

It might be a good idea to sit down privately with this student and find out exactly what his goals in training are. Sometimes having a pep talk with someone can give them a differen outlook.

Good luck and let us know how it goes!

Mike

Thanks for your responses. This student is in his lat 40's or early 50's. My concern is that this student is really beginning to get on my nerves to be honest. He does not take his training seriously at all. My opinion is that he is there just for the exercise. I think a sit down with him is coming very soon and at that time we will need to address his training goals.

In the spirit of Bushido!

Rob

 

[Mark Barlow]

If he pays tuition and doesn't cause a disruption, let him continue to take up space and help pay the rent. If he can't demonstrate the techniques required for the upcoming rank don't promote him. If his attitude is adversely affecting the Dojo, show him the door.

My sensei told me that the dojo was like a buffet. How much I took away with me was entirely my decision. If I turned up my nose at what was offered, I had no one to blame for my ignorance but myself.

 

[searcher]

After one year and he is not showing you what he needs to then I think you should prepare to move on. It goes back to the old saying of leading a horse to water. If he shows no interest then maybe you should take the same approach. I am sure that there are other students that would take the attention that he is receiving and put it to better use.

 

[chinto01]

I will see what happens over the next week and go from there. I like the buffet comparison. Made me laugh. I also have to remember that I cannot neglect the training of the rest of the students in the class. I will not sacrafice the training of a black belt for a white belt who has no desire to be there.

In the spirit of Bushido!

Rob

 

[OUMoose]

I'm no instructor, but I'm just curious. Is his lack of enthusiasm a recent occurance, or an ongoing one? If it's recent, there might be some problems in his life that are sapping his time/energy. Perhaps it's just a mid-life crisis thing. :idunno: The communication part is vital here I think.

 

[clfsean]

This is for all of the instructors out there. I have a student with whom I have been working with over the last year. This student chooses to come only once a week and puts in no extra effort to make other classes or practice at home. He is close to his next promotion however, after being told what he needs to do for it he has not done anything. When I approached him at his last class his comment to me was that he was not in a rush. That being said what do you think I should do? Am I wasting my time on him or should I keep pushing or do I give him minimal attention at class and focus on the others?

In the spirit of Bushido!

Rob

Not to be too cold, but let him continue to pay the bills while you work with your students.

 

[chinto01]

I'm no instructor, but I'm just curious. Is his lack of enthusiasm a recent occurance, or an ongoing one? If it's recent, there might be some problems in his life that are sapping his time/energy. Perhaps it's just a mid-life crisis thing. :idunno: The communication part is vital here I think.

It is not a recent thing it has been since he first started. He is the type of person that will take things that you say literally if it suits them. Example: I have told people that everyone has their own path in the arts and that people progress at different rates. This he tells me is why he is in no hurry. He has absolutely no focus in class and distracts others while doing kumite drills. I have had people tell me that he is a distraction to them and they would prefer not to work with him. I may suggest to him that he is welcome to participate in the workout but when it comes to the actual class he will either have to sit or work on his own with little guidance from me.

In the spirit of Bushido!

Rob

 

[TigerWoman]

At the risk of getting bad rep again, I knew a bunch of women who really just wanted to be a white belts forever, in it for the exercise. But they got bored by doing the same stuff over and over and eventually quit after a couple of years. Master tried everything. He tried to point out their strengths and work on them. I think they all got to the point where they could have tested but didn't want to test, perceived stress. I tried to point out, that alot of us women had already gone through it and it wasn't much more than a formality since the master had okayed them to test. Still, no go. They just wanted the workout which was pretty varied for the first half hour or so, then they had to do their belt level requirements.

I have to admit I went at first thinking I would be a white belt forever too, because I didn't want to do that breaking - only a step side kick, but its all in the mind as we all know. So the master put me on the spot, in front of a crowd at the fair and made me come up, of course, to break. So after that I had no excuses (even though I never let him know) and I tested the next month at 47, the rest is history.

So, I would just make him do the test in class, the whole thing. Over and over until he does better, working on what he needs to do. Not tell him he was doing the test, just have him do the regimen including breaking if you have that. And pointing out what he does do good as you watch. Then build on those. The one class a week though is a tough roadblock. Is it really time or not enough times available for class? I go at noon to practice, do kickboxing if anyone wants to do that with me, its open, and nothing is charged. Sometimes people come to just practice forms extra. Maybe some extra probing for what additional times or where he can practice might lend an answer. Personally I don't understand, because after three months, I was bored as heck with the same stuff. Once I knew that I could pass the test, I did. TW

 

[chinto01]

I do not know why he only comes to class once a week. I have tried to get him to others but to no avail. I keep building on the positives in his training but he doesn't seem to want to give that extra push to go to the next level. My sensei says that if you come to class and do not ready to give a good effort maybe it is better to go home and watch t.v.. I am not going to give up on this person yet. My instructor did not give up on me and lord knows he should have a long time ago, but I cannot continue to jeapordize the training of my other students in the class.

In the spirit of Bushido!

Rob

 

[arnisador]

If he's not in a rush, he's not in a rush. Give him time. We all go through phases. Give him the usual amount of attention unless he's really being a slug. Promote him when you think he's earned it.

 

[Jerry]

He has absolutely no focus in class and distracts others while doing kumite drills. I have had people tell me that he is a distraction to them and they would prefer not to work with him.

This was the first comment I saw as an actual problem.

I've no problem with a student that's in no hurry... but one who disrupts others, or puts no real effort into class when he is in it most certainly can be. If one student is a disruption, then either he needs to change or he needs to be removed from the class.

Talk to him, less about his work ethic and more about his effect on others. If you can't find a compramise which fixes the problem, thank him for choosing yuor school and send him on his way.

 

[Franc0]

If you feel that he's a bad enough distraction to the other students, and is not showing enthusiasm towards advancing, I would tend to agree with your Sensei. However, you might want to suggest to him private sessions. That way since he comes only once a week, his training would be more focused and perhaps his advancement would be more to your expectations.
Normally I would not be concerned about the pace in which a student advances, but if you feel his being a distraction would jeapordise the flow of your classes in that he makes students uncomfortable, you have to ask yourself if not giving up on him will be worth it in the long run. When it comes to testing him, I wouldn't even consider it unless he shows a full ability of demonstrating & understanding the curriculum/requirments.
It's really a matter of your gut feeling on whether this guys worth the effort or not.

Franco

 

[Tony]

We have had people who have turned up to our classes maybe once or eveen twice just to try something which will help them get fit and they may start joking aorund but then again we all do because my instructor has a great sense of humour and you are allowed to have a laugh but you must work hard and we all respect him! He is a really good instructor and every class is different and fun! This way you cannot get bored and you just keep coming back.

It is very frustrating when students are disruptive but this is only the case with the kids in our class. Someone in their 40s/50s should set a better example. If this person only wants to get fit, why doesn't he just join a gym or a aerobics class, maybe one that incorporates Martial Arts.

Have a friendly word with him about what he wants to get out of it and if he wants to work at his own pace so be it but he should know that he should not be disruptive. It has taken me 6 years to get to my present rank but I think I'm better for it.

I know that if anyone behaves in the way this guy does, he or she would have to do numerous pressups or situps and my instructor won't actually give a specific number but will only let you up when he wants. This teahes respect and humility, so I would suggest if he does talk or fool around you should give him press ups or have him stand in a very low Horse stance and see how clever he is then sweating and shaking.

Is there some kind of punishment you give your students when they misbehave ? If not then maybe something like what I suggested would be beneficial. If we are too slow forming up we would all have to do pressups and lots of them. This is how we learn to do as we are told in class.

 

[mj-hi-yah]

Obviously he irritates you, and unfortunately most of us do not get to decide which students we are to teach. I think there are some things you can do to make the situation better - some where mentioned already. If you help him set goals, keep him positively engaged in class, do not allow or give him time/opportunity to disrupt others, things could improve. It may take some extra effort on your part, and you will need to be consistent in how you deal with this. Do not sometimes let him fool around or be disruptive and other times not. He needs to know that you are serious and consistent across the board with all students, as well as consistent over time (from class to class). If not, you risk undermining your own authority as an instructor. This doesn't mean that you have to react in an angry way - just be firm about and clear on what you expect. Those expectations should be outlined for behavior and learning. So help him set goals for his learning. He should be on his own path and not compare himself to others and their achievements, but if there are no expectations for learning some people will never progress because they are not self starters. Be specific about things you think he can do to progress and improve and let him know that you expect him to do his best each and every class. This can take place in private conversations as well as in class by teaching through example. When expectations are clearly defined and consistent performance improves.

MJ

 

[chinto01]

I would like to thank all of you for your input on this subject. I have had almost a week to consider what I will do here and have decided I am going to sit and talk with him and see what his goals are. If they are just exercise then I may recommend that he may want to consider another avenue to explore and that my program does not offer what he is looking for once a week. I need to address this tomorrow as dues for the coming month are due and I do not want to "take" his money for a service that i cannot provide to him.

Thanks for your input again!

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob

 

[MJS]

You're Welcome! :asian:

Good luck on your decision and please let us know how things turn out.

Mike