What type of martial arts...

[terryl965]

Tez, if you have a multi-media function on your phone you can e-mail the photo from your phone to your e-mail addy.

It amazes me that no matter how many times we have this conversation on the boards that it lasts for pages upon pages. Visit different dojos, interview different instructors and follow your gut pretty much sums up what most folks will tell you yet there are a thousand different ways of saying it.:uhyeah:

I have to agree S_L is one a one man journey.

 

[exile]

Hello, In Japan ,Karate is more intense and strict and longer classes or training time. They do alot of kumite fightning to.

The more you martial art classes practice against real fighting? and with lots of contact? ....real self-defence against real speeds and force? ...the more you will become better at fighting back. (not sparring)

They say you want to learn martial art? ...take karate (genric name use here)....or you want to learn to fight? ....take (boxing, kick boxing, Judo, wreslting, bjj....)

You never looked at the `Police Shotokan' video, did you. Or found out anything at all about the reality-based full-contact street-realistic training that the British Combat Association provides endless seminars and courses in. Or the many dojos in the US which train karate hard combat. You still cannot make the conceptual distinction between the technical content of the art and the training methods, which vary widely in all arts from place to place. You haven't bothered to investigate any of the documentation of these aspects of karate that you've been provided with in half a dozen threads.

I have to come to the following conclusions, still_learning: (i) you know little or nothing of current karate training for street use in places from the UK to Australia; (ii) you appear to feel compelled to broadcast this lack of relevant knowledge over every thread you post in. I'm totally mystified why you insist on repeating misinformation that has been rebutted by other MT members in virtually every forum you've posted it. Have you not figured out by this point that all you're doing is giving people who can identify all the ways you're wrong about karate all kinds of chances to show you're wrong?

I've come to accept that you aren't going to learn anything (usernames notwithstanding) about karate. All right; too bad, but that's your problem, not that of the karateka who know just what their art, properly trained, can do to an untrained violent attacker. But I still can't figure out why you haven't realized that this kind of grossly uninformed rehash of your favorite dogma only serves to lead people to conclude that you do not know know enough about what you're talking about to be taken seriously...

Martial arts training? ..and real fighting training? .....there is a difference....? VERY few schools train like the Okinawa's style of hardcore....in the USA? ....just look around...

Have you looked around? Exactly what have you done that allows you to believe the truth of what you're saying here? What has your experience been? And hasn't it occurred to you that there are now training guides available so that people can set up their own realistic combat training programs? Have you read anything by Peyton Quinn? Geoff Thompson? Lawrence Kane?

Aloha ( I will get blasted...that is OK....the truth is out there) or you will find out for yourself on the REAL STREETS of USA>>>

You will continue to get blasted until you start bothering to inform yourself of exactly what the `truth... out there' is, based on real information from the experts who have already done the work...

 

[terryl965]

You never looked at the `Police Shotokan' video, did you. Or found out anything at all about the reality-based full-contact street-realistic training that the British Combat Association provides endless seminars and courses in. Or the many dojos in the US which train karate hard combat. You still cannot make the conceptual distinction between the technical content of the art and the training methods, which vary widely in all arts from place to place. You haven't bothered to investigate any of the documentation of these aspects of karate that you've been provided with in half a dozen threads.

I have to come to the following conclusions, still_learning: (i) you know little or nothing of current karate training for street use in places from the UK to Australia; (ii) you appear to feel compelled to broadcast this lack of relevant knowledge over every thread you post in. I'm totally mystified why you insist on repeating misinformation that has been rebutted by other MT members in virtually every forum you've posted it. Have you not figured out by this point that all you're doing is giving people who can identify all the ways you're wrong about karate all kinds of chances to show you're wrong?

I've come to accept that you aren't going to learn anything (usernames notwithstanding) about karate. All right; too bad, but that's your problem, not that of the karateka whose who know just what their art, properly trained, can do to an untrained violent attacker. But I still can't figure out why you haven't realized that this kind of grossly uninformed rehash of your favorite dogma only serves to lead people to conclude that you do not know know enough about what you're talking about to be taken seriously...




Have you looked around? Exactly what have you done that allows you to believe the truth of what you're saying here? What has your experience been? And hasn't it occurred to you that there are now training guides available so that people can set up their own realistic combat training programs? Have you read anything by Peyton Quinn?



You will continue to get blasted until you start bothering to inform yourself of exactly what the `truth... out there' is, based on real information from the experts who have already done the work...

Exile you know you are barking up the wrong tree. S_L will never ever agree with any of us.

 

[Flying Crane]

I find myself constantly surprised...

ah, well, perhaps this is the problem sir, that you continue to be surprised where you should not, by now...

 

[exile]

Exile you know you are barking up the wrong tree. S_L will never ever agree with any of us.

ah, well, perhaps this is the problem sir, that you continue to be surprised where you should not, by now...

I'd answer you guys at greater length, but the orderlies keep showing up and shoving my hands back into this bloody straitjacket... :lol:

While they're off down the hall, I'll just echo what others have said above: you have to make the decision on a school-by-school, rather than an art-by-art basis. This is probably the single biggest garden-path that novices in the MAs get led down: the idea that all decisions about training methods, application of forms, and utilization of the full technical toolkit are determined once you decide which art you're going to study. The fact is, those decisions are not `made' by the art, but by individual instructors, whose knowledge, experience and attitude all play a role in how combat-ready the skills you learn in their particular schools will be. The thing is, not everyone wants to learn MAs for self-defense purposes. There are all kinds of reasons people study the MAs. There's probably a school that's accessible to you that takes a particular view of the MA it teaches which makes it just right for you; but you have to check the local MA school scene carefully for a while before deciding.

 

[newGuy12]

The thing is, not everyone wants to learn MAs for self-defense purposes. There are all kinds of reasons people study the MAs.

Yes. Yes indeed. There is SO MUCH more! I have met people who have changed me for the rest of my life because of Martial Arts. Such special times. Such special people.

Self Defense is but ONE aspect of the total experience. There will always be one greater. There is a Samurai saying that says something like that. I can understand wanting to practice a Martial Art which is practical and will be useful in self-defense. But my gosh! There are so many other benefits as well!

Where to begin?

1) Have an interesting thing to do to learn.
2) Meet people (generally the people seem to be quite top notch who practice these Martial Arts)
3) Become better coordinated with your motions in general.
4) Better health (and ALL that that means -- better spirit of living).
5) If you stay a long time, you can be useful to others, perhaps giving them a little "heads up" tip or two when you are able.

The list just goes on, and on, and on.

6) Learn things about a different culture.
7) Have a place to go each night to forget everything else and FOCUS. (This is very close to being a meditative practice, clears your brain, your conciousness).

Hahaha --> fighting off an attacker is just one little bit of food on the plate. How about looking at the entire buffet which is ours? It is very beautiful in its bounty! Very beautiful!




Regards,

Robert

 

[still learning]

Hello, I do believe there are some great schools that DO teach or prepare those for REAL fighting....at the same time....

Today with thousands of schools and so call Black belts that never experience the REAL world...are teaching what they learn that was past down to them and have change for today's students......is water down alot.

Look around and view all those Black belts that are promote by the thousands each year? ......when they have to face a REAL situtions....how many will be able to defend themselves?

There are many that can play baseball, football, martial arts.....only a few become Pro's in there fields.

A Black belt in the old days...were like PRO"S........Today it is very different......look around....anyone can get a Black belt!

like getting a college degree....almost any one can get one.....it doesn't mean....they know their stuffs.

THERE ARE NO STANDARDS OR REQUIRMENTS FOR EARNING A BLACK BELT.....

Martial arts is about be able to defend oneself......how many can do it in the REAL world?

REAL training for the STREETS.....fighting for your life? .....

STill learning has alot to learn ....that for sure....again Just my thoughts....

Most of you seen more Black belts than I will ever see (Hawaii has a small population) ........those that you see and know? .....how many can you believe can defend themselves.....look around? ...All not just the top guy's....Mojo's

I am sure there are many that can do it too.......

Is Martial arts a factory? ........,..Aloha ( just my beliefs )

 

[still learning]

Hello, I use to believe everything my Sensi's, Professors, Instructor said!

I was a good sheep....and follow them everywhere and they teachings!

As the years go bye....my eyes starting open....I look around and started question many of the things that I was taught.....

Others also said the same things I was question...Today I still question what we are still learning...

Maybe I am an OUTLAW on way of thinking of what martial arts is about today....NO longer a SHEEP!

Trust your intincts...follow the truths....even if thousand people say you are wrong....does'nt make is so....the truths are out there!

Each of us will seek his PATH for the true way of learning the marital arts...I seek a different path from most...............

Aloha ( could I be lost? ) .....not!

 

[terryl965]

Hello, I use to believe everything my Sensi's, Professors, Instructor said!

I was a good sheep....and follow them everywhere and they teachings!

As the years go bye....my eyes starting open....I look around and started question many of the things that I was taught.....

Others also said the same things I was question...Today I still question what we are still learning...

Maybe I am an OUTLAW on way of thinking of what martial arts is about today....NO longer a SHEEP!

Trust your intincts...follow the truths....even if thousand people say you are wrong....does'nt make is so....the truths are out there!

Each of us will seek his PATH for the true way of learning the marital arts...I seek a different path from most...............

Aloha ( could I be lost? ) .....not!

S_L you are not lost you are on a path of destruction, I have never in my 45 years in the MA heard anything like you. I hope you can find a path that can help you grow as a MA'ist and let you see the light for true training. ALOHA

 

[Cirdan]

still_learning, this is not meaningful conversation. Whatever path you are on it seems awfully narrow right now. I can only hope it will take you to a place of reason and proper spelling.

 

[still learning]

still_learning, this is not meaningful conversation. Whatever path you are on it seems awfully narrow right now. I can only hope it will take you to a place of reason and proper spelling.

Hello, Our school teachers only taught the way they were taught to teach....NOT going out the box.....in Hawaii...where pigeon is spoken and use.....alot....so our education has NOT change much. Can you tell by my writings? and spellings.....IF you live here...you will know we speak differently.

My path may seem narrow to you? ....but I see the whole world, question the WHY's....why are doing it this way...or is there a more effective way...Why? you see people practice like this? ...yet fight another way? Why? ...it practice it works in class...but on the streets of real fighting...NO one fight like they practice? ....or WHY are street fights so different from Marital art training of self-defense?

Look at Russian martial arts? ..look at Kav Magva? ...look at navy seals? .....Look at MMA,s. how they train? Why they train that way? ...

NOT a sheep anymore......there are better ways to learn and train...some may not be found for another hundred years...than again maybe tomorrow?

Amercan's believe their medcine is the best in the world....yet chinese...seem to know what works better many times....take Qigong...many of Our Doctors...questions this healing art? ...many also don't know why it works........

Kaiser Hospitals have classes and sessions (Qigong) in their hospitals....because Qigong seems to heal many patients...yet American Doctors? ...many disbelieve...So do...that is why it is given at Kaiser Permanete Hospital in Hawaii!

Look around you....question why? ....do not become the sheep....learn to question? ...is there a better and more effective way to learn martial arts?

or do you just follow? and believe what is told to you?

I am always seeking a better and more effective way to learn and train....still looking and still learning....and learning from mistakes too....

The art of learning? ...and teaching? .....CAN ALWAYS BE IMPROVE AND better ways to train more effectively....

Look at all the sports in the world....notice how training seems to be improving in all sports...what was taught before..is NO longer use today?

It is amazing on the amount of schools of thought on how to lift weights and excercise today?

One day the training of martial arts will change too...THERE WILL ALWAYS BE BETTER WAYS TO LEARN and TO TEACH?

This is my beliefs.....one day the teaching of martial arts will be more effective and last time to learn them. What took years...maybe less than a year? to learn!

If you believe the only way to learn is the way you were taught? ....than you will forever stay in the past.

Aloha ( thanks for giving things to think about) ....learn to see things different)

PS: Yes! My english is terrible and the spelling is bad...Hawaii schools education?

 

[still learning]

Hello, Why many things do not change?

Your Teacher, teaches you how to do your martial arts. His teacher taught him his way to teach it. So he follow his past teacher lessons.

As you get promoted and become a Teacher....you will teach the way you learn it from your Teacher, and your students will teach it the way they learn it from you.....NEVER question the whys or is there a better way to learn and teach?

When the learning and teaching never changes.....it will stay in the past.

Until someone learns from someone else from other teachers and adds to theirs....some changes begins.

Bruce Lee is famous for this...take what works and let go those things that do not work....

LOOK at your own training and teaching's.....CAN YOU SEE ANOTHER WAY? Can you see what makes sense? ...and what doesn't in your martial arts?

Don't go blind and follow like a sheep......OPEN your mind..to see other ways?

My Judo instructor told us: I will teach you the proper way for the throws....than make it your own.
You see...he does not do them like he learn them....he adjust them to fit him, so his moves are different than the text books, IT WORKS FOR HIM!
He is also training to make the Olympic team...he knows he is a long shot....from Hawaii!

Seek what is the truths...? Always question...your learning? ....Aloha

 

[Cirdan]

My path may seem narrow to you? ....but I see the whole world, question the WHY's....why are doing it this way...or is there a more effective way...Why? you see people practice like this? ...yet fight another way? Why? ...it practice it works in class...but on the streets of real fighting...NO one fight like they practice? ....or WHY are street fights so different from Marital art training of self-defense?

We have been over this a dozen times alreareay. Answers have been provided for you but you do not even seem to register that fact. For the sake of .... take a break and READ the posts.

 

[Tez3]

still_learning, this is not meaningful conversation. Whatever path you are on it seems awfully narrow right now. I can only hope it will take you to a place of reason and proper spelling.

AMEN!

 

[thardey]

I want to learn a martial art, I don't actually have a preference. I took Taekwondo for a while...like 6 years ago >_>
Anyway, I was looking for more of a 'reactive' rather than offensive martial art, but something that could still do considerable damage. (What am I saying here any MA can do damage...)

Any suggestions? Anything else you would need to know before you suggested something!?

So, since there seems to be controversy, what would you say is the most applicable for actual combat?

This is a personal decision that only you can make. What works for me, personally, may not work for you, and I would not impose my choice on others if it does not fit them. In addition, no matter how good the MA is, if you don't like the class, the instructor, the format - any particular thing about it - you won't stay, you won't learn, and therefore it won't work for you.

That's why this topic comes up so often - some people believe that only their particular style is effective - but most people believe that there has to be a fit between the student, the style, and, most particularly, the instructor.

If you check the links I posted above, you will see that they lead to discussions on how to pick the art that is right for you - not the one that is right for someone else.

Something that often gets overlooked in the wisdom of first seeing what's available in your area, is that you also have to look at what you're likely to come up against. Some of the most successful schools may be that way because they make the students feel prepared for what they see on their own streets everyday.

Each branch of Martial Art developed in response to a particular threat. Most of the time the focus gets placed on the community designing the MA, but little is placed on the threat facing that community. So the differences you will find in Karate, Judo, Jujitsu, etc reflect the problems they faced.

Look at your own community, or if you are traveling, the communities of where you are going. What do the "Bad guys" use there? Find what counters it.

For instance, I live in a growing, rural area. Most athletes here were trained in football or wrestling. Some of them are trying to get into the local cage fighting. That means that I am most likely to have to face a tackle/takedown with wrestling. Also, most fights are from drunken, wannabe cowboys in a playful mood. Cowboys carry pocketknives as an everyday tool, even the wannabe ones. Meth is growing here, fast, and home-robberies, and identity thefts are expected to rise, as meth-heads are getting desperate for money. Meth affects people in certain, physical ways.

These are some of the main concerns I have on the "real life" streets of Southern Oregon. I have had to find answers to these problems.

What are the problems facing you? Do you have to fight for respect? Are there active gangs you have to deal with? What is a popular style of fighting where you live? Are you more likely to have to deal with an attack of legal paperwork, or by a single attacker, or by a group? What is the local attitude towards weapons in your community?

Find a martial art that deals with those questions, and you will find an art that you will believe in.

 

[howard]

Something that often gets overlooked in the wisdom of first seeing what's available in your area, is that you also have to look at what you're likely to come up against. Some of the most successful schools may be that way because they make the students feel prepared for what they see on their own streets everyday...

Each branch of Martial Art developed in response to a particular threat... So the differences you will find in Karate, Judo, Jujitsu, etc reflect the problems they faced...

Look at your own community...What do the "Bad guys" use there? Find what counters it...

What are the problems facing you?... Find a martial art that deals with those questions, and you will find an art that you will believe in.

Those are great points. And, as you say, ones that are very often overlooked.

 

[Flying Crane]

I'd answer you guys at greater length, but the orderlies keep showing up and shoving my hands back into this bloody straitjacket... :lol:

While they're off down the hall, I'll just echo what others have said above: you have to make the decision on a school-by-school, rather than an art-by-art basis. This is probably the single biggest garden-path that novices in the MAs get led down: the idea that all decisions about training methods, application of forms, and utilization of the full technical toolkit are determined once you decide which art you're going to study. The fact is, those decisions are not `made' by the art, but by individual instructors, whose knowledge, experience and attitude all play a role in how combat-ready the skills you learn in their particular schools will be. The thing is, not everyone wants to learn MAs for self-defense purposes. There are all kinds of reasons people study the MAs. There's probably a school that's accessible to you that takes a particular view of the MA it teaches which makes it just right for you; but you have to check the local MA school scene carefully for a while before deciding.

Oh, no argument from me. I was just reminding you of one definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result...

Perhaps some people need to be allowed the room to pursue their own folly. When/if they are ready, they will come around and reconsider.

 

[terryl965]

Oh, no argument from me. I was just reminding you of one definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result...

Perhaps some people need to be allowed the room to pursue their own folly. When/if they are ready, they will come around and reconsider.

Great advise and to be honest for some that day may never come.

 

[exile]

Oh, no argument from me. I was just reminding you of one definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result...

Yes, there is that.... I guess it's not just second marriages that testify to the triumph of hope over experience, eh? But after a while, the point does begin to sink in... sigh...

 

[newGuy12]

Oh no, I can hear the orderlies approaching. Everyone, quiet now, and if they ask if you have seen 'Exile', just shake your head "No!"!!!

I was hoping to find a youtube video showing a Kenpo Man with such fast hands. All of the videos that I saw, though, showed only instuction, not so much a demonstration of those fast hands.

The only one that is close to what I hoped to find was this one Paul Mills:

Be sure to watch until the very last, because then you see Ed Parker. Can someone dare say that they will have to "wait around" for this type of technique to be done? No. Practice is at one speed, and the execution for self defense is much faster, it is like LIGHTNING! BAM!!! One count!

There is no "one, two, three" counts, it is ONE! BAM!

Here, here is another one, that is much longer, but if you need evidence, watch this clip:

Now, you can see that Mr. Paul Mills demonstrates by hitting the assistants that he uses. You can see how the strikes make the opponent bend over, and so on. They are tough students that do not mind being hit in this way, and you can see how these motions work, with the natural reactions.

Now, who will say that you will have to "wait around" for this technique??? Whoever messes with this guy is going to be nothing but a bag of broken bones by the time they hit the floor!!!