what to do agaist.....

[Manny]

Sadly I have to tell you robberies at knife point are becoming something of the everyday here in my city, the roberies to houses/home too. It seems the very bad people from other states of my city like Puebla or Mexico City are coming here to do felonies or crimes AND pople from sudamerica like El Salvador passing trough to USA remains here and become burglars, raptist and even kidnapers.

My wife works at a high school in downton near a navy facility (the old navy school) and this week several students were robed at knife point, you know cellphones, lap tops and that kind of stuff and at least two female teachers in plain sight were robed too. I was amazed cause the school principal does nothing! and the people at the old navy school neither.

I am very worried for my wife, cause one student was stabed and this bad a...s work in groups where one or two sobs corner the people and the other scumbags waite in motorcicles or cars till the robbers get inside to fly away.

I was thinking yesterday what to do, even myself at 6' tall and 240 punds and with all the training I have (inside dojang) think I could get injured or kill by two scumbags using ice picks or stilettos and I am super worried for my wife that she does not know how to deal with this things.

What we can do against a knife pointing at you pretty close? Don't Know but I think the best way to deal with this is to be in yellow condition and take care of the sorroundings and always keep away for the bad situations, places and never let a unknow person aproach us no more than 5 meters.

Yesterday I realize no matter been a black belt in TKD can help me agaist dope people wanting to hurt you for some money or even a gold neckchain or a cell cphone.

I am very worried.
Manny

 

[Instructor]

I am the only person I know to go up against a real live knife wielding attacker and subdue this attacker without a scratch. If you don't already you need to work on this kind of training in your dojang. I am a big proponent of barricade/shield training because it worked really well for me. Had i tried some elaborate martial arts move against the knife I would have undoubtedly been cut.

If your existing style doesn't have much for knife defense this might be a good time to dabble in another style that does, such as Hapkido.

Tell your friends and family not to go anyplace alone in the danger zone. Safety in numbers. Otherwise a firearm is a good idea.

I will pray for you and yours Manny, be safe.

 

[Manny]

I am the only person I know to go up against a real live knife wielding attacker and subdue this attacker without a scratch. If you don't already you need to work on this kind of training in your dojang. I am a big proponent of barricade/shield training because it worked really well for me. Had i tried some elaborate martial arts move against the knife I would have undoubtedly been cut.

If your existing style doesn't have much for knife defense this might be a good time to dabble in another style that does, such as Hapkido.

Tell your friends and family not to go anyplace alone in the danger zone. Safety in numbers. Otherwise a firearm is a good idea.

I will pray for you and yours Manny, be safe.

Truth to be told in dojang we don't see or practice so much agaist a knife, I can tell you in my master's dojang there is no shedulle for self defense against firerams, clubs, base ball bates or knife. What I am doiung is trying to focus in some techs I see on videos but it's really scary to know you will eventually cut or stabed, a crazy intoxicated man can withstand punishment and can be a real danger.

I think the best defense will be stay alert and don't let anybody unknow to aproach, yelling out loud something like FIRE, FIRE or back off or something elese and seek help, also maybe a small can of mace aimed to the eyes can work.

Manny

 

[Cyriacus]

If someone tries to rob you with a knife, give them what they want if you can help it.
Other than that, avoid high risk areas, and travel in groups, like Instructor said.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Having lost an eye to a mugger, I'm going to take a slightly different (and likely unpopular) position than most.

Yes, by all means, your first priority ought to be awareness and avoidance.
However, I do not agree with the 'give them what they want and they'll go away' school of self defense.
I gave the mugger what he wanted. He was convinced I had more (I did not) and was willing to kill me to get it.
I believe that you ought to go along until the mugger is distracted for a split second. Then drop them in the most expedient manner possible. If that means killing them, then kill them. Quickly.
In hindsight, instead of handing the mugger my wallet, I should have held it out and dropped it when he reached for it; the eyes will follow it reflexively. And then I should have dropped him.

Since then, I've taken a lot of weapons off people in the ER. On two of those occassions, the person drew the weapon (a knife, in both cases) intending to use it. In neither case did I give them the chance to do so, and in neither case was anybody injured (bruises and such don't count...). In the first case, where I followed conventional wisdom, I ended up losing an eye. He ended up with a broken neck.

 

[arnisador]

I am the only person I know to go up against a real live knife wielding attacker

Been there.

and subdue this attacker without a scratch

Well, I blocked the stab, shook the hold, and got away. Not as good a story but unscratched.

A knife is very dangerous in anyone's hands. Avoid going up against it if at all possible. I recommend Filipino arts for the knife, unsurprisingly; but definitely, no-nonsense techniques.

 

[K-man]

I have attended a number of knife SD sessions, purely to make sure what I teach is on par with what others I feel might be more experienced than me are teaching. In many cases, what is taught is too complex to work under a stressful situation. In my dojo I do about 30 minutes of knife defence every week. That way it starts to become reflex. As I've posted before, we use real knives but blunted. That way you are also familiar with facing what looks like a real knife. To practise knife defence once a month or less as was the case when I was learning just doesn't work.

So, Manny, I would suggest that if you can't get enough training in your dojang, grab a couple of your mates and practise with them. Start slow and pick up the intensity as you feel more confident. Try not to have a particular move for a particular attack. If you work that way and the attack is slightly different, then your defence may fail. Try to work on principles rather than specifics, if that makes sense.

Even so, what you said in your post is still valid. Try to keep right away from trouble if at all possible.

Good luck! :asian:

 

[mook jong man]

What you will do depends on if it is a "knife threat" or a "knife attack".
In a knife threat the knife maybe presented to intimidate , to get you to do what they want , it might be held to your throat or pointed at your gut.
In a knife attack the weapon is already in motion trying to stab or slash you.
Both sets of circumstances will use different techniques.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Been thru several knife courses.

1. 5 meter distance is not enough. Many law enforcement courses use something like a "30ft. rule" a person can close a 30 ft. gap and cut you before you draw and shoot a gun.

2. I am a firm believer in run foo / nike jitsu https://1c47d0f0-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites...aF9uEICCkpFtlQV6dbY7in63GAegwg&attredirects=0

3. One strategy would be to keep a junk cell phone and a seperate wad of cash on hand. If the robber wants the stuff, drop it onto the floor several feet away from the direction you want to escape in. After you drop it run and yell. The robber has a simple choice. The nice quiet cash and phone or chase the yelling person.

4. At several courses we fight each other and try to defend. We rub the edge of the knife with lipstick. Basicaly, 90+% of the time we cut the snot out of each other and have lipstick in all over us.

BTW actualy going to a knife course today!

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I am no expert, I can't say much, as I have no standing to do so.

I will say this, based on my own experiences and the training I have had to date.

Empty-hand defense against a knife is possible. But it requires a combination of skill, training, and luck to be successful at it, and being unsuccessful can mean your life. If I learned a defense move and practiced it hard and earnestly 10,000 times, I might depend upon it. A couple times a year in the dojo? No.

 

[chrispillertkd]

I am the only person I know to go up against a real live knife wielding attacker and subdue this attacker without a scratch.

Well, not me but another Taekwon-Do instructor I am friends with was mugged while on his job this past year (he works as a security escort for in-home nurses who have to go to bad parts of town). Well, it was an attempted mugging, anyway. The mugger drew a knife on him and demanded money. My friend complied and began to get his wallet which was in his cargo pants pockets. The mugger decided that maybe just stabbing him and taking the money was a better idea. My friend ended up grabbing the attacker's arm, put him in a lock which broke the arm in a couple of places, and then crushed his sternum.

When he called 911 after the fact the operator said, "You've been injured in a mugging and need an ambulance?" To which he replied, "Not me. The mugger."

Some times the good guys do win. But you need to put in the training time, just like with everything else. My friend teaches weapons defenses against knife and gun as a regular part of his instruction. I've seen him demonstrate the techniques and would not want to be on the receiving end. I almost feel bad for the mugger. Almost.

Pax,

Chris

 

[StudentCarl]

Manny, those who rob take easy targets first (the unaware and weak) and choose people who look worth robbing. Robbers want profit, not a fight. It is wise not to look worth robbing. Avoid clothes, jewelry, and technology that tells people you have money. Carry what you need with you including a small amount of money so if you do get robbed you are not seeming to hide money. If others look more worthwhile to rob AND you/your wife avoid looking like easy targets, it is less likely you will face this danger up close.

Your situation may involve more than one robber with a knife, so you should think of that too.

You are in our prayers.
Carl

 

[Earl Weiss]

I have attended a number of knife SD sessions, purely to make sure what I teach is on par with what others I feel might be more experienced than me are teaching. In many cases, what is taught is too complex to work under a stressful situation.

Good luck! :asian:

FWIW at this latest cours the guy agrreed!!! If it has more than 2 parts and fine motor skills it's probably a bad idea.

Guy does a lot of work with the Military and PSD units. So lots of stuff was not relevant to regular LEO and had options to access your own weapon, firearm especialy.

 

[Buka]

Manny, I think the best way for you to approach defense against an edged weapon is to train a bit with a good knife fighting instructor. I don't know Mexico well, but I know a man.....how far are you from Morales?

 

[Manny]

What I have to do is to stay out of the standard way of practicing self defense against a knife, the atacks are not close to reality so does the self defense techs most of the times, I think the way to practice is to keep distance and use what ever tech works againts a stab for example or a cut.

Manny

 

[Instructor]

Arm yourself! I find the pepperball gun to be particularly effecive:

http://www.pepperball.com/oldsite.html

Don't fight a knife fighter empty handed.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

What we can do against a knife pointing at you pretty close?

Manny,

Allow me to be blunt and to the point; many 'martial arty' techniques will get you injured or killed. They were developed, in many cases, by individuals that had/have never been in an edged weapon altercation. They in turn taught people who had/have never been in an edged weapon altercation and so forth. To state it plainly, if any technique relies on refined motor skills...it will fail. If it doesn't control the delivery system...it will fail. If it doesn't immediately and brutally incapacitate the attacker...it will fail. The reasons are simple, under duress, refined motor skills go out the window. If the delivery system isn't controlled you will be cut/stabbed. And if you don't immediately deal with the attacker then far too many variables exist that work against you.

Let's address some consideration;

What is the distance between you and the attacker?

Are you able to put obstacles and/or terrain between you and the attacker?

Are you able to introduce obstacles between you and the attacker?

If the situation calls for hands-on, do you have at your disposal gross-motor skills that control the delivery system and incapacitate the attacker?

Are you mentally as well as physically capable of killing your attacker if necessary? Can you inflict severe damage on the attacker if necessary?

Statistically speaking, most altercations average 7 seconds in duration with injury occurring in the first 3 seconds. Will your skill set allow you to deal with an edged weapon altercation in seconds? I personally know of only one edged weapon defense system that has real-world statistical data as to the level of effectiveness with law enforcement agencies. And it is taught by a lot of law enforcement agencies here and overseas. I'm sure there are a few other effective systems with real-world data, but I only know and teach the system as developed by Darren Laur and promoted by the late Peter Boatman. I've been teaching this system for our agency as well as my personal students since the 90's and I have been in edged and blunt weapon altercations. It isn't magic, it isn't flashy and it isn't 'martial-arty'. It is ugly, gross-motor, simple and brutal.

I don't know if you can make it up to Oklahoma next March, and I don't mean this as a 'shameless promotion' but I'll be teaching this system at our IKSDA seminar for free. You'd be welcome to attend.

 

[Instructor]

Manny,

Allow me to be blunt and to the point; many 'martial arty' techniques will get you injured or killed. They were developed, in many cases, by individuals that had/have never been in an edged weapon altercation. They in turn taught people who had/have never been in an edged weapon altercation and so forth. To state it plainly, if any technique relies on refined motor skills...it will fail. If it doesn't control the delivery system...it will fail. If it doesn't immediately and brutally incapacitate the attacker...it will fail. The reasons are simple, under duress, refined motor skills go out the window. If the delivery system isn't controlled you will be cut/stabbed. And if you don't immediately deal with the attacker then far too many variables exist that work against you.

Let's address some consideration;

What is the distance between you and the attacker?

Are you able to put obstacles and/or terrain between you and the attacker?

Are you able to introduce obstacles between you and the attacker?

If the situation calls for hands-on, do you have at your disposal gross-motor skills that control the delivery system and incapacitate the attacker?

Are you mentally as well as physically capable of killing your attacker if necessary? Can you inflict severe damage on the attacker if necessary?

Statistically speaking, most altercations average 7 seconds in duration with injury occurring in the first 3 seconds. Will your skill set allow you to deal with an edged weapon altercation in seconds? I personally know of only one edged weapon defense system that has real-world statistical data as to the level of effectiveness with law enforcement agencies. And it is taught by a lot of law enforcement agencies here and overseas. I'm sure there are a few other effective systems with real-world data, but I only know and teach the system as developed by Darren Laur and promoted by the late Peter Boatman. I've been teaching this system for our agency as well as my personal students since the 90's and I have been in edged and blunt weapon altercations. It isn't magic, it isn't flashy and it isn't 'martial-arty'. It is ugly, gross-motor, simple and brutal.

I don't know if you can make it up to Oklahoma next March, and I don't mean this as a 'shameless promotion' but I'll be teaching this system at our IKSDA seminar for free. You'd be welcome to attend.

This....

 

[Earl Weiss]

I'm sure there are a few other effective systems with real-world data, but I only know and teach the system as developed by Darren Laur and promoted by the late Peter Boatman. .

LAer quotes extensively from Siddle http://www.realfighting.com/content.php?id=97

Siddle is the founder of PPCT systems which primarily teaches LEOs and prison guards.

I have been through both the Edged weapons and Pressurre point and control systems course of PPCT.

They are very good, yet they operate in parameters where the LEO has to answer for their actions and are taught as such.

Recently attended a course taught primarily for Military and other government operatives. Far less restraints. As you said, brutal and not pretty.

 

[sopraisso]

Dear Manny,

There are effective system that can help you deal with a knife attack. Nevertheless, they won't make you invincible against one. They'll only raise your chances to survive. Even though, there are many variables (present in any kind of real life agression) that will reduce your chances (number of attackers, psychic state, and many many other). My first and most important advice for this kind of question is usually: "don't fight". This is probably not cool, and it doesn't fulfil most martial artists' sweet fighting dreams, but the truth is that in most cases fighting is the worst option (usually the only time where this is wrong is when fighting is the <only> option).

I'm serious. You have a family, you have a lot to put at risk. So the best way to protect yourself is avoidance, you know, do everything not to be there when the robber shows up. If you ever be caught, just give your belongings and return home safe and sound.
You can train martial arts to really be able to protect yourself from someone who doesn't give you any option other than fighting back, but honestly, is this a possible scenario? To my kind of life it isn't. If someone attacks me, their intent is to rob me. Quite easier to escape alive, if you ask me. If someone really wants to kill me (I don't have that many enemies, anyway), they just won't give me a chance to fight back, probably. So I can train with intent to defend myself for real, but I don't plan to ever do it.

Taking it simple, in most cases, if someone fights, they have a chance to survive and a chance to die (even if it is a small chance -- although I don't think it would be so small). If someone just lets it go without fighting, they go back home (losing money and other belongings, but what's more important?). Why would you prefer to take the risk?

Always think of your family, my friend, and use the DO side of martial arts. It is a great way to take us longer in life.

Best wishes.

Sérgio