What the hell is Enlightenment!?

TieXiongJi

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I have been hunting for this elusive ENLIGHTENMENT since I heard the word when I was ~10 years old.
I have studied philosophy (100's...). I have studied martial arts (at least 10 conflicting theories). I have studied science and engineering (focused on electrical, but never forgot that all disciplines stem from the same fundamental concepts).
I have come up with this so far.

Everything is 1, everything is trying to become a better 1, and everything will avoid 0 as that is the end.

Many truths can be discovered through explaining this concept in detail, but I would love some external input from the martial arts community.
I have met many people who claim to have figured it out, but only a few who understand what I am saying with the above and the more elaborate conversation.
 

Flying Crane

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I would say that if you think you should be having elaborate conversations about it, then you haven't found it.
 
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TieXiongJi

TieXiongJi

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I would say that if you think you should be having elaborate conversations about it, then you haven't found it.
Ok. Then how would you explain it to another person? What good is an idea trapped inside your head?
 

Buka

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Enlightenment...

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TieXiongJi

TieXiongJi

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I dunno. How long does it take to learn patience?
Patience is a sliding scale. I am much more patient with beginners than an advanced student.
When I am trying to understand truth, or become enlightened about a topic, I have to discuss the topic. Discussing Enlightenment and the process is more important than finding it then quitting. Just asking your opinion on the matter. Saying, "I would say that if you think you should be having elaborate conversations about it, then you haven't found it." can be applied to any topic which you don't understand and have no path to understanding.
 

Flying Crane

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Patience is a sliding scale. I am much more patient with beginners than an advanced student.
When I am trying to understand truth, or become enlightened about a topic, I have to discuss the topic. Discussing Enlightenment and the process is more important than finding it then quitting. Just asking your opinion on the matter. Saying, "I would say that if you think you should be having elaborate conversations about it, then you haven't found it." can be applied to any topic which you don't understand and have no path to understanding.
Are you losing your patience with me? I'll look around here, in case you've dropped it somewhere.
 
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TieXiongJi

TieXiongJi

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Are you losing your patience with me? I'll look around here, in case you've dropped it somewhere.
No, I feel like you won't even attempt to answer the question and you are trolling me with your responses.
We can have a conversation or not. So, ttyl.
 

Flying Crane

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No, I feel like you won't even attempt to answer the question and you are trolling me with your responses.
We can have a conversation or not. So, ttyl.
I would say you are missing the point altogether, then. This isn't something to be nailed down. You don't suddenly become enlightened. I would say it might come to some people who aren't looking for it, but doubtful that those looking for it will ever find it.

I would not say it is synonymous with being at peace, either. Enlightenment could cause a lot of inner turmoil.

I don't know much about it, but those are my initial thoughts on it.

What do you hope to gain from it?
 

hoshin1600

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I want your answer. What is your answer to, "What is Enlightenment?"
my answer will only be words that describe my understanding ,so i was asking if you want me to use Asian or western terminology. they are the same understanding and reality but how you convey that understanding will be completely different, so different in fact unless the reader is enlightened he may think they are two separate things.

i will answer this in Chis Parker style,
I have been hunting for this elusive ENLIGHTENMENT since I heard the word when I was ~10 years old.
ok.. the age is not really relevant but i assume you mean you have been wondering about it for a long time.
I have studied philosophy (100's...).
totally irrelevant. to study football will not make you better at tennis. so why would reading Satre, Adorno or Viktor Frankl help you with a Hindu and Buddhist concept that at its core acknowledges that academic pursuits and thinking can not comprehend. its like trying to find out what love is and reading that love is sweaty palms and butterflies in your stomach then wondering how they got in there.

I have studied martial arts (at least 10 conflicting theories).
Again totally different pursuits, i have found most martial artists have little to no interest in the subject. a few may but often are content with eating a Mcdojo version rather than an actual steak they had to work for. in martial arts it is almost always a marketing gimmic not an actual pursuit.

I have studied science and engineering (focused on electrical,
do i have to repeat my last two statements again?
by reading your post i will have to assume your knowledge of the subject would be no more insightfull then my postman.

Everything is 1, everything is trying to become a better 1, and everything will avoid 0 as that is the end.

Many truths can be discovered through explaining this concept in detail, but I would love some external input from the martial arts community.
I have met many people who claim to have figured it out, but only a few who understand what I am saying with the above and the more elaborate conversation.
so the way i read this statement is that you have the answer and if we"dont understand what your saying with your "formula statement " then you need to explain it to us.




so i will give you my official Zen Answer and you can explain it ....
"outside, waves crash on a rocky shore. Inside the moon reflects on still waters"
"Above not a tile to shield my head. Below not an inch to place a step"

when you aim at the target with the mind you miss it all the more. You cannot use your mind to understand and regulate your mind. would you not need two? Do not tell me what you think "IT" is show me !!! Show me your original mind!!!! IF you cannot then you have missed the target. The way to enlightenment is not thru the four noble truths or the eight fold path, if you find the Buddha by the side of the road ....KILL HIM!!!!
Sit grasshopper Sit. be still ...watch the breath and dont look ,, dont search. thinking leads to confusion
Philosophy ha ha...." i think.. therefor i am confused"
 
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TieXiongJi

TieXiongJi

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I would say you are missing the point altogether, then. This isn't something to be nailed down. You don't suddenly become enlightened. I would say it might come to some people who aren't looking for it, but doubtful that those looking for it will ever find it.

I would not say it is synonymous with being at peace, either. Enlightenment could cause a lot of inner turmoil.

I don't know much about it, but those are my initial thoughts on it.

What do you hope to gain from it?

More understanding of a concept through thoughtful discussion, sensible logic, find the fundamental truth of the matter. You know, how we investigate anything.
 

Flying Crane

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my answer will only be words that describe my understanding ,so i was asking if you want me to use Asian or western terminology. they are the same understanding and reality but how you convey that understanding will be completely different, so different in fact unless the reader is enlightened he may think they are two separate things.

i will answer this in Chis Parker style,

ok.. the age is not really relevant but i assume you mean you have been wondering about it for a long time.

totally irrelevant. to study football will not make you better at tennis. so why would reading Satre, Adorno or Viktor Frankl help you with a Hindu and Buddhist concept that at its core acknowledges that academic pursuits and thinking can not comprehend. its like trying to find out what love is and reading that love is sweaty palms and butterflies on your stomach then wondering how they got in there.


Again totally different pursuits, i have found most martial artists have little to no interest in the subject. a few may but often are content with eating a Mcdojo version rather than an actual steak they had to work for. in martial arts it is almost always a marketing gimmic not an actual pursuit.


do i have to repeat my last two statements again?
by reading your post i will have to assume your knowledge of the subject would be no more insightfull then my postman.


so the way i read this statement is that you have the answer and if we"dont understand what your saying with your "formula statement " then you need to explain it to us.




so i will give you my official Zen Answer and you can explain it ....
"outside, waves crash on a rocky shore. Inside the moon reflects on still waters"
"Above not a tile to shield my head. Below not an inch to place a step"

when you aim at the target with the mind you miss it all the more. You cannot use your mind to understand and regulate your mind. would you not need two? Do not tell me what you think "IT" is show me !!! Show me your original mind!!!! IF you cannot then you have missed the target. The way to enlightenment is not thru the four noble truths or the eight fold path, if you find the Buddha by the side of the road ....KILL HIM!!!!
Sit grasshopper Sit. be still ...watch the breath and dont look ,, dont search. thinking leads to confusion
Philosophy ha ha...." i think.. therefor i am confused"
That was really well done. I would have believed that Chris Parker had made this post if no name were attached to it. You captured his style remarkably well.
 

Flying Crane

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More understanding of a concept through thoughtful discussion, sensible logic, find the fundamental truth of the matter. You know, how we investigate anything.
I am afraid you will never discover enlightenment, then. Nor will you learn patience on an accelerated path of study.
 
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