"Absorb what is useful" and the automotive metaphor

[Kung Fu Wang]

Alternately, side step in the direction the kick is traveling so that some of the force is disappated.

I like to use my leading arm to block it and then to use my back arm to catch it. In other words, my both arms will act as a "trap". After I can catch my opponent kicking leg, I have many different ways to take him down. So to take the risk to catch his roundhouse kick is worthwhile.

1. press his upper body down.
2. lift his leg over my shoulder and throw him backward.
3. pick his whole body up and throw him behind me.
4. pick his whole body up, rotate his body, throw him down in front of me.
5. press his neck down, spin his body, give him plenty of space to let him kiss the dirt.
6. sweep his standing leg.
7. hook his standing leg.
8. horse back kick his standing leg.
9. lock his leg between my legs, press his upper leg down.
10. ...

 

[JP3]

Well, not really. I'm talking about what I do. At this point in my life I think I'm decently qualified to be a "martial arts engineer", so to speak. Thirty years ago, not so much.

Some people have the talent, brains, drive, and experience to become martial arts engineers much earlier in their training than I was. Many people (most?) never reach that point. Some people have the ability, but not the desire. Some have the desire, but not the ability.

It's just one way of approaching things which may work for some people.

And Tony, some have it sort of forced on them. That'd be me.

Start out with traditional Ueshiba aikido at an early age, and teacher moves away to pursue career, switch to old-school karate. I was 10 then, so aam not really sure what style, or styles, the instructor really knew. Well, if he really "knew" any is another question. The "Get out of the way" from my original aikido worked really well, though it went afoul of the teacher's desire to have us work blocks and counter strikes. Ah well. Then out of high school and off to college and no more karate, but now there is TKD, and while TKD does have you get out of the way AND punch the bejeebus out of people it is far less preferred than just taking their head off with a foot. Adjust... adjust. Out of one college and on to the next, and TKD is replaced with Hapkido. Then out of that and into work and into Muay Thai. Then back into graduate level stuff and into Judo, using the TKD experience to "pay" for the judo classes. Then, moving again and recovering from illness, turning ti full circle to land in aikido, but not the Ueshiba original, but the Tomiki taught, judo-influenced version (sort of a black sheep in the white sheep aikido family).
Still, trying to learn the new thing, all the while trying to not "insert" the teaching of the old, into the new, and basically failing the entire time. Mongrel-do, maybe?

 

[Buka]

And Tony, some have it sort of forced on them. That'd be me.

Start out with traditional Ueshiba aikido at an early age, and teacher moves away to pursue career, switch to old-school karate. I was 10 then, so aam not really sure what style, or styles, the instructor really knew. Well, if he really "knew" any is another question. The "Get out of the way" from my original aikido worked really well, though it went afoul of the teacher's desire to have us work blocks and counter strikes. Ah well. Then out of high school and off to college and no more karate, but now there is TKD, and while TKD does have you get out of the way AND punch the bejeebus out of people it is far less preferred than just taking their head off with a foot. Adjust... adjust. Out of one college and on to the next, and TKD is replaced with Hapkido. Then out of that and into work and into Muay Thai. Then back into graduate level stuff and into Judo, using the TKD experience to "pay" for the judo classes. Then, moving again and recovering from illness, turning ti full circle to land in aikido, but not the Ueshiba original, but the Tomiki taught, judo-influenced version (sort of a black sheep in the white sheep aikido family).
Still, trying to learn the new thing, all the while trying to not "insert" the teaching of the old, into the new, and basically failing the entire time. Mongrel-do, maybe?

Mongrel-do....I really like that. Might have to find some artwork and make a -shirt.

 

[Mou Meng Gung Fu]

are you suggesting they should catch it before or after it has hit them in the ribs, after is easer but to late, before just smashes' their hand up

Assuming you're already in range and the opponent's movement reveals his intention to throw a roundhouse kick, I'm probably going to attempt to respond with a knee block/strike to his inner leg, or just above the kneecap (of the leg he is kicking with). THEN if that works, I'll go for the grab. But I'm grabbing anything.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

This is why I'm a martial arts engineer rather than an automotive engineer.

And we'd all rather have you working on stuff in the BJJ lab than working on our cars, thank you very much.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

are you suggesting they should catch it before or after it has hit them in the ribs, after is easer but to late, before just smashes' their hand up

Assuming they stand still for the trap, that is all true. But that assumption ignores their ability to move.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

your considering getting another car as your Merc doesn't have cup holders, that a bit extravagant, cant you buy one of those after market ones that clip on the door

The point was that some things can't be cobbled in from another car easily, while others can. I can't borrow a cup holder from another car. If I really want an integrated cup holder, then I need a different car. There are other answers (like the clip on you mentioned, and the one that MB added that pops out of a storage compartment). This is pretty analogous to fitting bits of arts together. Some parts can be borrowed and fitted into an existing base easily. Others cannot. And sometimes there's something better in another art (integrated cup holder), but there's something in your base that does the trick well enough, but not as well (like the add-on MB came up with).

 

[Gerry Seymour]

if it hits that that won't dissipate any of the energy,

How do you come to that conclusion? Moving in that direction actually changes the target point (which, if done after targeting, means the kick lands beyond its maximum power range and is losing speed) and has you moving away from it, decreasing the force by changing the rate of acceleration (deceleration) involved.

 

[drop bear]

Assuming they stand still for the trap, that is all true. But that assumption ignores their ability to move.

Not sure if people are understanding how to catch a kick here.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Not sure if people are understanding how to catch a kick here.

I just don't ever want any of those dudes kicking me, DB. Please?

 

[jobo]

How do you come to that conclusion? Moving in that direction actually changes the target point (which, if done after targeting, means the kick lands beyond its maximum power range and is losing speed) and has you moving away from it, decreasing the force by changing the rate of acceleration (deceleration) involved.

your not describing' dissipation, dissipation is to convert one type of energy to another type. So you could dissipate kinetic energy in to heat energy through friction, . There is no conversion of energy in the example you gave so no dissipation has occurred

 

[Gerry Seymour]

your not describing' dissipation, dissipation is to convert one type of energy to another type. So you could dissipate kinetic energy in to heat energy through friction, . There is no conversion of energy in the example you gave so no dissipation has occurred

Actually, there is. In a football kick, heat is generated, as is damage to the ball. Same with a kick to a person. Those are simplified models, but accurate for descriptive purposes. But this isn't a physics forum, so I'll leave the discussion at that. You seem to be very caught up in a very detailed use of specific terms. Remember that we're discussing martial arts, and so our models must be necessarily simplified (and along with them, the corresponding terms) to keep things from getting lost in detail. Dissipation doesn't account for all the energy not transferred from the point of impact to the ball's travel, but it's a factor, and the most useful shorthand for the model.

 

[jobo]

Actually, there is. In a football kick, heat is generated, as is damage to the ball. Same with a kick to a person. Those are simplified models, but accurate for descriptive purposes. But this isn't a physics forum, so I'll leave the discussion at that. You seem to be very caught up in a very detailed use of specific terms. Remember that we're discussing martial arts, and so our models must be necessarily simplified (and along with them, the corresponding terms) to keep things from getting lost in detail. Dissipation doesn't account for all the energy not transferred from the point of impact to the ball's travel, but it's a factor, and the most useful shorthand for the model.

your using words to describe physics, these words are defined, you cant just make your own defintions up and call it physics. Yes in kicking a foot ball energy is dissipated in heat, not very much , but it is. In the senario you gave of moving way from a kick it is not. So it's the wrong word and physical concept your are using

 

[JP3]

Mongrel-do....I really like that. Might have to find some artwork and make a -shirt.

I'm good for one good shirt quote per week, but I didn't think that one qualified. How about some sort of mutt, with a scar over hiz muzzle, missing half an ear, maybe with a lazy eye and with half a humahn femur in it's mouth, the other half on the ground?

That's a dog you'd want to let sleep, eh?

 

[JP3]

Not sure if people are understanding how to catch a kick here.

.... I've "caught" a few kicks with my face, does that count. As optimal techniques go, I personally rated those as fails.

Of course, that was the learning process. Eating (felt literally accurate) a roundhouse kick to the face is one hell of a prod to learning exactly how to NOT have to eat them again. Human skin, and even worse a foam instep guard or the foam bootpads which have been left in the training bag unwashed for months at a time taste horrible.

Step in, step out, who cares. Just freakin' step! Trying to block the kick from whre the guy throwing it or lass, apologies Tez, is about the dumbest way possible to deal with a round kick, head or shin level. Who wants to deal with all those accelerating, mass-loaded vectors? F = MA ?!? Brains over Brawn, I say, and I had plenty of brawn, but the little monkey brain was able to figure that one out.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

your using words to describe physics, these words are defined, you cant just make your own defintions up and call it physics. Yes in kicking a foot ball energy is dissipated in heat, not very much , but it is. In the senario you gave of moving way from a kick it is not. So it's the wrong word and physical concept your are using

Okay, if you're going to get lost in sticking to definitions that are not useful, that's fine. The word "dissipate" has a common meaning which makes it useful among this non-physicist crowd. If I used all the correct physics terms, they wouldn't be able to follow. You do what you like - I'm here to actually communicate.

 

[jobo]

Okay, if you're going to get lost in sticking to definitions that are not useful, that's fine. The word "dissipate" has a common meaning which makes it useful among this non-physicist crowd. If I used all the correct physics terms, they wouldn't be able to follow. You do what you like - I'm here to actually communicate.

but your communicating things that are false. If you said something like the pain from my tooth has dissipated , then id just laugh at you, but I would know what you mean
. If you use dissipate on a conversation about physics, then I and everybody else has no idea what you mean. Do you mean the correct defintion or just one you have randomly decided to apply. If no one knows what your defintion is, no one knows what you are trying to communicate.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

but your communicating things that are false. If you said something like the pain from my tooth has dissipated , then id just laugh at you, but I would know what you mean
. If you use dissipate on a conversation about physics, then I and everybody else has no idea what you mean. Do you mean the correct defintion or just one you have randomly decided to apply. If no one knows what your defintion is, no one knows what you are trying to communicate.

Actually, no. First, the term was originally used by someone else. I understood his meaning, as did others. The term "dissipate" has a meaning outside physics that is understood by most. Using that meaning is not "false". If that were true, everything we said would be a lie to someone who expected us to use a different definition of at least one of the words, given that most words have multiple meanings.

Using standard wording to explain physics is not falsehood. It's just a different set of words to communicate to a different audience. If I'm talking to a group of engineers or scientists, I'll stick to the terms that are most accurate to that audience. That's not this audience. Now, can we get back to the actual discussion, or are you more interested in being "right" about which words people must use?

 

[jobo]

Actually, no. First, the term was originally used by someone else. I understood his meaning, as did others. The term "dissipate" has a meaning outside physics that is understood by most. Using that meaning is not "false". If that were true, everything we said would be a lie to someone who expected us to use a different definition of at least one of the words, given that most words have multiple meanings.

Using standard wording to explain physics is not falsehood. It's just a different set of words to communicate to a different audience. If I'm talking to a group of engineers or scientists, I'll stick to the terms that are most accurate to that audience. That's not this audience. Now, can we get back to the actual discussion, or are you more interested in being "right" about which words people must use?

can you show me a dictionary defintion of dissipate that agrees with your defintion, if not your defintion is specific to you.
false. Doesn't mean a lie, it just means not factual, fact and fiction. You are clearly not lying in your bumbling attempts to explain physics, its just broscience were myths and falsehoods are passed on by well meaning but inept commentators

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Assuming you're already in range and the opponent's movement reveals his intention to throw a roundhouse kick, I'm probably going to attempt to respond with a knee block/strike to his inner leg, or just above the kneecap (of the leg he is kicking with). THEN if that works, I'll go for the grab. But I'm grabbing anything.

If the distance is close enough and your leg can reach to your opponent's rooting leg, you can also do this.