What is this Stance Called?
- Thread starter Gyakuto
- Start date
Yokozuna514
2nd Black Belt
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2018
- Messages
- 781
- Reaction score
- 603
In Kyokushin we call this stance kake dachi.
isshinryuronin
Master of Arts
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2019
- Messages
- 1,917
- Reaction score
- 2,097
Kosa dachi.
It is one of those "specialized" stances that are done to aid in the execution of a particular technique or to handle a particular situation. As a result, one doesn't remain in this stance for more than one or two seconds. Its main, but not only, use is to pivot the body to create torque for some kind of lock or pull.
It is one of those "specialized" stances that are done to aid in the execution of a particular technique or to handle a particular situation. As a result, one doesn't remain in this stance for more than one or two seconds. Its main, but not only, use is to pivot the body to create torque for some kind of lock or pull.
We call it a cross stance or crossover stance. We teach is as both a step in front and a step behind. It's mostly used for closing or increasing distance. It is also used for twisting the body, as when combined with a grab.
It's called "stealing step" in CMA. It's a step (footwork). It's not a stance.
In SKK we called it a T-stance or a cross-step. Not sure if those were official names or not though, I never focused too much on those things. Have not seen it in muay Thai, kali or grappling arts. And people were always bewildered when I'd use it in fencing, so don't think it has a name there either.
Makes sense for fencing. In fencing, the right of way rules and such allow you to make deep lunges that you really cannot recover from all that easily. Without that option, this would be one way of closing (or increasing) the distance. I've seen it (and done it) in SCA matches.
I did it a lot in fencing. Worked very well, especially against those that hadn't seen it before, as a different way to advance quickly down the strip, and be able to recover backwards.
isshinryuronin
Master of Arts
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2019
- Messages
- 1,917
- Reaction score
- 2,097
It's called a "fleche" and is a deep lunge propelling you forward (almost out of control as Dirty Dog mentioned). The rear leg then has to cross over the front to begin to regain control of your forward momentum. Another step after that is usually needed to fully recover.
Like other moves in sport combat, it is very risky in real combat since you are exposed afterwards, but sport fencing has a number of rules that prevents the opponent from capitalizing on this. It is fun to execute since most other fencing techniques are quire restrained.
Last edited:
OP
- Thread Starter
- #13
Yes a bit like standing on one leg when throwing a head kick….
OP
- Thread Starter
- #14
I ask because there is a similar posture in Japanese swordsmanship, again it is transitory between withdrawing and stepping forward to thrust with the sword, rather like a spear. But, I’ve never heard a name for it. Thus I’ll use ‘kosadachi’ when explaining it.
Nope. I'm aware of what a fleche is. That's very different than this stance, unless I'm entirely misunderstanding what stance is being referred to here-the only similarity is that the legs are being crossed.
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2015
- Messages
- 14,064
- Reaction score
- 5,986
ha ha ha. I knew a comment like this was on the horizon.
To clarify further. The stance in the screenshot looks like one designed to transition while keeping your balance and staying rooted. When you fleche, while it's a transitionary stance, and the legs cross. And, while this part may not be universal, in my art the leg that's doing the crossing always ends up crossing from behind, rather than in front.
When you fleche, you cross the leg in front, and are purposefully losing your balance, 'falling' into the fleche. The upper body posture as a result is entirely different, and while with a t-stance you can easily reverse course once you uncross, that is very difficult to do with a proper, committed fleche.
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2015
- Messages
- 14,064
- Reaction score
- 5,986
This is a Cross Stance in Jow Ga Kung Fu. I use it as a transitional stance. It can be used for a lot of things. The benefit of this step is that it usually places the lead foot into a "ready position" of the next technique to follow. Or it can be used to "hide" the foot work of the next technique that you want to use.
As Kung Fu Wang mention "Stealing step." in that context it can be use to close the gap. I use it to get me closer to my opponent without my opponent realizing that I'm advancing. The picture actually shows 2 techniques.
1. Hand Technique
2. Foot Technique / Stance technique
I also uses this stance as part of my recovery foot work when I've been pushed off balance. It absorbs the energy from a push much better and it makes it easier and faster to regain balance. In the picture below my opponent pushed me off balance while I was standing on one leg from a failed attempt to trip him.
In my opinion the biggest misconception about this stance is that it = Crossing legs. I don't cross my legs as shown in the picture above. That back foot should always have an opening to move forward or move freely without crashing into the front leg. Crossing legs to me means that my rear leg can not move forward without hitting the front leg. I'm sure there are exceptions the areas of grappling. In terms of footwork, I believe that the legs should know how to move in other ways beyond forwards and backwards.
Easiest way I ever found to hit an Olympic fencer in a HEMA-style event is to circle them. Sort of like big time Olympic TKD players can be punched in the head.
Only if you're stupid enough to stand there.
You don't twist the body like the example shown when you're doing a fleche. The fleche is done from more of a front stance or walking stance.
You stand on one leg when you throw any non-jumping or -flying kick. And yet, we see high kicks used all the time in fighting sports, without the kicker being instantly knocked out.
Last edited:
isshinryuronin
Master of Arts
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2019
- Messages
- 1,917
- Reaction score
- 2,097
Yes, they are completely different things in purpose and execution. You and others brought up leg crossing in relation to fencing and the "fleche" seemed to be the topic. I meant no similarity other than this. Maybe I executed a fleche, "falling" into a wrong assumption as to your reference. Kosa dachi is, as you said, a rooted stance while the fleche is more of a radical movement. I think we're on the same page, just started out of synch to start.
