what is ninjutsu?

[heretic888]

the art of ninjitsu or art of invisibility.

Actually, the proper transliteration is ninjutsu.

more less known as shadowhand.

That term is taken from Haha Lung's books published by Paladin Press. It has no basis in Japanese history or culture.

It is far from mortal combat's worriors scropion or sub zero.

Well, at least you got that much right.

It is an art established in ancient japan for the samurai that dishonored the code of Bushido.

The "code of Bushido" was an invention of Nitobe Inazo in the 1890's. For references, please see:

Death, Honor, and Loyalty: The Bushidó Ideal by G. Cameron Hurst III

Bushidó or Bull? A Medieval Historian’s Perspective on the Imperial Army and the Japanese Warrior Tradition by Karl F. Friday

Naturally the ninjas trained to be silent to sneak upon their enemy, as the samurai would let his enemy defend himself first.HICH

Nope, not even close. Please see:

Samurai and Fair Fights by Ellis Amdur

Laterz.

 

[bydand]

Oh, here we go again. Wait just a moment please;

:drinkbeeropcorn::drinkbeer

OK, continue.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

I'VE GOT IT!!!! The tragedy of Maupassant did not consist solely of his disease, it was the realization that he was finished! He understood that his creativity had been decimated and that it was the womanizing, his own way of life, that was the true culprit! It's brilliant! I'm a genius!!!*








*Sorry, folks, OT. I'm just trying to shine a little light on the contrasts here, that's all.

 

[sciencemunk]

The search button can be your friend.

I'll say this again, there is no Korean ninjutsu. There may be some superficial similarities, but by definition, there were no Korean ninja. The Koga tradition was named after the Koga region of Japan.

you should check out "choson ninja" on youtube
claims to be Korean Ninjutsu

please bless me with your opinion of this guy

oss

 

[Chris Parker]

Oh dear Lord...

No, not a chance of us talking about him without going through the fraudbusting rules to find loopholes... but, if you're interested, visit e-budo, particularly this thread: http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?p=479355#post479355

 

[kaizasosei]

From wiki:

Ninjutsu (忍術?) sometimes used interchangeably with the term ninpō (忍法?) is the martial art, strategy, and tactics of unconventional warfare and guerrilla warfare as well as the art of espionage purportedly practiced by the shinobi (commonly known outside of Japan as ninja).[1]
While there are several styles of "modern ninjutsu," the historicity and lineage of these styles is disputed. [2]

Etymology

The main character nin (忍?) is composed of two greater characters. The upper character ha or toh (刃?) means "edge of the sword", and the lower character kokoro or shin (心?) means "heart" or "soul". The character 刀 means "sword" or "blade," the character 刃 means "edge of the sword." Together they mean "stealth", "secretness", "endurance", "perseverance", and "patience".[3] Jutsu (術?) means "art" or "technique". Pō (法?) meaning "knowledge", "principle" when found with the prefix "nin" carries the meaning of ninja arts, higher order of ninjutsu.
[edit]History

Ninjutsu was developed by groups of people mainly from the Iga Province and Kōka, Shiga of Japan.　Throughout history the shinobi have been seen as assassins, scouts and spies. They are mainly noted for their use of stealth and deception. They have been associated in the public imagination with activities that are considered criminal by modern standards. Throughout history many different schools (ry&#363 have taught their unique versions of ninjutsu. An example of these is the Togakure-ryū. This ryū was developed after a defeated samurai warrior called Daisuke Togakure escaped to the region of Iga. Later he came in contact with the warrior-monk Kain Doshi who taught him a new way of viewing life and the means of survival (ninjutsu).[4]
Ninjutsu was developed as a collection of fundamental survivalist techniques in the warring state of feudal Japan. The ninja used their art to ensure their survival in a time of violent political turmoil. Ninjutsu included methods of gathering information, and techniques of non-detection, avoidance, and misdirection. Ninjutsu can also involve training in disguise, escape, concealment, archery, medicine, explosives, and poisons.[5]
Skills relating to espionage and assassination were highly useful to warring factions in feudal Japan. Because these activities were seen as dishonorable, Japanese warriors hired people who existed below Japan's social classes to perform these tasks. These persons were literally called "non-humans" (非人 hinin?).[6] At some point the skills of espionage became known collectively as ninjutsu, and the people who specialized in these tasks were called shinobi no mono.
[edit]18 Skills



Masaaki Hatsumi demonstrating his techniques on Mind, Body & Kick *** Moves
In Japanese Ninja J&#363;hakkei, that according to Bujinkan[7] members the eighteen disciplines (j&#363;hakkei < j&#363;hachi-kei) were first stated in the scrolls of Togakure-ry&#363;. Subsequently they became definitive for all ninjutsu schools by providing total training of the warrior in various fighting arts and agarter.
Ninja j&#363;hakkei was often studied along with Bugei J&#363;happan (the "18 samurai fighting art skills"). Though some are used in the same way by both samurai and ninja, other techniques were used differently by the two groups.
The 18 disciplines are:[8]
Seishin-teki ky&#333;k&#333; (spiritual refinement)
B&#333;jutsu (stick and staff fighting)
Shurikenjutsu (throwing shuriken)
S&#333;jutsu (spear fighting)
Naginatajutsu (naginata fighting)
Kusarigamajutsu (kusarigama fighting)
Kayakujutsu (pyrotechnics and explosives)
Hens&#333;jutsu (disguise and impersonation)
Shinobi-iri (stealth and entering methods)
Bajutsu (horsemanship)
Sui-ren (water training)
B&#333;ryaku (tactics)
Ch&#333;h&#333; (espionage)
Intonjutsu (escaping and concealment)
Tenmon (meteorology)
Chi-mon (geography)
Taijutsu (Unarmed Combat)
Kenjutsu (sword fighting)

 

[Hudson69]

Ninjutsu is a name that can be applied to a number of martial art systems that combine weapons, empty hand combat skills with a wide variety of field skills, usually centered around stealth. Some are newer, some are older, some have a lineage, some do not.

 

[Kajowaraku]

It seems people get two different questions mixed up in this thread:

"What is ninjutsu?"

and

"What sort of arts are often referred to as "ninjutsu"?"

People inventing their own system and retroactively applying a name with historic roots to it does not make what they do ninjutsu, it means they and theirs call it ninjutsu. Because it resembles what they (want to) do, because it sounds nice, because it sells or simply because they want it to be so.

Let me use a different -largely hypothetical- example: if I, versed in western swordmanship, would decide to use japanese katana because there's a bigger market for such arts (or whatever reason). I'd figure a sword is sword, how different can it be? Let's assume I kick *** with a bastardsword, apply similar concepts to a katana and call my style: somefancyjapanesename-ryu kenjutsu, of which I -naturally- make myself daisupersoke grandmasterguru.

The techniques probably won't be half bad (despite obvious differences and flaws and such, but that's not the point). And even though this sort of selfpromotion is frowned up (with good reason imho), let's just assume it actually turns out to be a decent system (again, hypothetically).

Still, despite it all that: people would raise eyebrows if I were to advertise it as "traditional samurai swordmanship techniques". OR even funnier "scientifically enhanced modern traditional samurai fighting techniques". It's hilarious when you do it with samurai, still with ninjutsu it appears to be more the rule than the exception, with new, long extinct, lost and forgotten traditional schools emerging every other year.

very awkward that...

 

[kaizasosei]

Very true. I think that is actually a very realistic hypothesis. Perhaps many styles of martial arts or all arts and crafts in general have been created in this way. At least they always seem to favour exotic lands and exotically foreign ideas. So it is completely possible for some ancient martial arts to have been created through such a kind of syncretism.

Nowadays, some people in japan sometimes argue that japanese culture is becoming stagnant. Back in the day, a kimono or wafuku was rather usual atire but now it's 'traditional' . Back in the day the clothing was evolving...more alive. Now all the arts are set in stone. Which is a good thing in many ways and a sign of perfection, but on the other hand, they are becoming more like relics rather than normal parts of life.


So perhaps, creation is just creation and all the arts created that are viable will survive and possibly become a 'tradition' of a certain culture in a certain time. Those that are doomed for failure will fail. Perhaps some bad arts could survive and legit skills can also become lost, only waiting to be rediscovered .


j

 

[Kajowaraku]

I agree many arts conceivably started out like this, but that's not what i'm trying to say here. Point is even if applying bastardsword techniques to fighting with a katana centuries after either of them were actually used in warfare and battle could, maybe, perhaps result in a more or less decent, coherent system: but it could NEVER be bushido or samurai swordmanship. At best it would be a working adaption of interpretations of centuries old, scattered manuscripts on western swordfighting, applied to a completely different sword altogether and by grace of using a sword of a different cultural context being renamed to fit the new tool.

Same goes for ninjutsu... if you want to learn stealth: join the rangers or force recon. A hapkidoka wearing a black keikogi throwing metal chopsticks at a cardboard stickfigure is not a korean ninja. It's a hapkidoka throwing metal chopsticks at a cardboard stickfigure saying he's doing korean ninjutsu (just an example, and in no way intended as an attack on hapkido).

 

[Hudson69]

What is in a name? Decent system or bad system, good instructor or bad instructor it really does not matter. Just like in my earlier post it is what it is no matter what label you put on it.

Some peopel say modern Special Forces soldiers are the true modern "ninja" and at the same time you will get BBT or Genbukan people taking both sides by saying yes or "heck" no, or staying neutral.

What do you want?

 

[jks9199]

What is in a name? Decent system or bad system, good instructor or bad instructor it really does not matter. Just like in my earlier post it is what it is no matter what label you put on it.

Some peopel say modern Special Forces soldiers are the true modern "ninja" and at the same time you will get BBT or Genbukan people taking both sides by saying yes or "heck" no, or staying neutral.

What do you want?

I think that "ninjutsu" as the name of a martial art refers to specific disciplines that developed in Japan. I don't think you can make the argument you seem to be trying to with any better justification than calling any martial arts "karate" or "kung fu." Or saying that an artist who paints murals is no different than a professional room painter. After all, they're both just putting paint on the wall, right? Both require skills and even a bit of talent... But they're not the same thing, are they?

 

[Hudson69]

I don't know anything about arts originating in Koga, Korea. I do know that they would not be Japanese arts, and thus are off-topic for the Ninjutsu forums.

This is a general discussion for ninjutsu so location, Japan or Korea, should be an option. I have heard of the Sulsa but that is it, just heard of them.

 

[jks9199]

This is a general discussion for ninjutsu so location, Japan or Korea, should be an option. I have heard of the Sulsa but that is it, just heard of them.

It might just be me... but I find that this forum is under the headings Japanese Martial Arts and Ninjutsu - General Discussion. Sorta implies that maybe it's supposed to be about arts from that particular group of islands, no?

 

[Hudson69]

I think that "ninjutsu" as the name of a martial art refers to specific disciplines that developed in Japan. I don't think you can make the argument you seem to be trying to with any better justification than calling any martial arts "karate" or "kung fu." Or saying that an artist who paints murals is no different than a professional room painter. After all, they're both just putting paint on the wall, right? Both require skills and even a bit of talent... But they're not the same thing, are they?

That is throwing a wide swath on a limited venue. To Shin Do and the Shadows of Iga could be considered a ninjutsu, there is a group in Ohio that bases their system off of ninjutsu and, I think, calls it ninjutsu (not Mr. Hayes) and they are in America now even though they originated in Japan.

If that is the argument then ninjutsu is simply a derivative of some Chinese fighting arts that might have come from India.

All I am saying is "It is what it is." You can get someone who says that they are teaching "modern" ninjutsu and it might have no, some or completely based off of thier experience in one of the x-kans and it might be really good, average or the worst training someone could get. To get worked up on what it is called seems a little childish, just ignore it and not give someone the satisfaction of explaining how it cant be, shouldn't be or that good, they are right or something else.

Ninjutsu is just a word/name I could say something like "Soke Hatsumi is the head of the New World Order" and if the voices in my head say he is then you are not going to convince me I am wrong.

Dont get me wrong, to have pride in something you have accomplished or see an organization you are a member of as a good thing is a good thing. But please dont get worked up over someone comparing something to something else or using a label for one thing on another that a majority would see as being unfounded.

In a month, a year, a decade it will be forgotten 99.9% of the time unless there is something special about it.

Just my .02

 

[Chris Parker]

Very simply, Hudson69, Ninjutsu refers to a set of skills and philosophies that developed in particular regions in Japan between 700AD and 1800AD (approx). These areas of knowledge may indeed have been influenced by knowledge brought from other lands, but what was brought was not Ninjutsu, Ninjutsu did not exist in these other lands, and Ninjutsu is, be definition, Japanese. No two ways about it, I'm afaid.

As to organisations that are not Japanese but teach Ninjutsu or use the name Ninjutsu to describe what it is that they do, if there is no connection back to the acknowledged skills and philosophies developed in Japan and refered to as Ninjutsu, then it is simply not Ninjutsu. It cannot by definition be Ninjutsu. So if the organisation is one such as To Shin Do, who trace themselves through Hayes Sensei back to Hatsumi Sensei (and prior to that, Tanemura Sensei), or my organisation, which traces itself through Wayne Roy back to Hatsumi Sensei, and prior to that, Nagato Sensei, that's okay. It is still a Japanese art, in origin and heart, with a different emphasis in application.

But Ninjutsu is by definition Japanese, and that is all there is.

 

[Hudson69]

?

 

[Shinobi Teikiatsu]

Basically what he's saying is that To Shin Do IS Ninjutsu because it traces its origins back to the original arts from Japan. If we're going to use the "different name, different location" argument, then none of the X-kans are Ninjutsu either, because the Bujinkan did not exist until Hatsumi became the Soke and after O-Sensei passed away. The Bujinkan was not founded in the Iga or Koga region of Japan, it was founded in the Hombu dojo, but the arts it comprised of WERE founded in the specific regions, but were most likely not named Ninjutsu. More likely, these styles were named X-ryu (region or family name) and ninjutsu was later applied because the techniques were used by ninja (who were, most likely, dubbed ninja post-mortem) If a "ninja" used an art such as Aikijutsu, would that make Aikijutsu Ninjutsu? No, it would not.

Sorry to go off on a tangent, but the point I'm trying to make is that your argument that a rose by any other name would smell just as sweet is not applicable when we're talking about historical arts.

 

[Cryozombie]

Right. Its like no matter how many decals a Pinto Owner changes on their car... its still not a Mustang. They can CALL it a Mustang, believe its a Mustang, put Mustang logos all over it... its still just a Pinto.

They are both cars. Both Fords. But fundamentally they ARE different.

 

[jks9199]

Right. Its like no matter how many decals a Pinto Owner changes on their car... its still not a Mustang. They can CALL it a Mustang, believe its a Mustang, put Mustang logos all over it... its still just a Pinto.

They are both cars. Both Fords. But fundamentally they ARE different.

A better example might have been a buddy of mine's 'Vette.

CHEvette.

The several x-kans are ninjutsu systems; they have direct and maintained ties to the "mother" art in the Bujinkan, though they've gone their own ways. Toshindo is in the same family, in my opinion. I might liken it to something like a chef doing an Asian-inspired dish, using a lot of American ingredients in place of the traditional stuff. It's recognizably related, but clearly pretty different, too.

But you can't take a dish of fried chicken and call it tempura. Yeah, they've got some commonalities -- but they ain't even close!

If you claim it's ninjutsu, it's got to have a pretty clear and strong connection to the arts developed in Japan. The ninja don't have a lock on stealth, or spy tactics. And simply including stealth/spy tactics/what-have-you in what you do doesn't make it ninjutsu...