What is it with reality systems and hip throws?

[drop bear]

I noticed this looking through some videos recently that these sorts of courses are mad keen for a hip thow. Or some sort of judo variant.

Now I have been taken down by judo throws but never by a guy who hasn't really trained the thing.

What normally happens is they fire one off, wind up with their back exposed and basically have a real bad day from there.

Now I get it if you do judo. You can spend enough time getting good enough that it works. Above video is Mc Map which i cant imgine has anywhere near the time to make people competent enough to make it work.

 

[hoshin1600]

Military gear is very bulky and heavy. What other throws would you suggest with they do when there is a limitation on agility?


EDIT. I think it is also easier to throw someone when they are fully equipped like that as well.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I noticed this looking through some videos recently that these sorts of courses are mad keen for a hip thow. Or some sort of judo variant.

Now I have been taken down by judo throws but never by a guy who hasn't really trained the thing.

What normally happens is they fire one off, wind up with their back exposed and basically have a real bad day from there.

Now I get it if you do judo. You can spend enough time getting good enough that it works. Above video is Mc Map which i cant imgine has anywhere near the time to make people competent enough to make it work.

I don't know what else they work on, but I'm not fond of a hip throw without nearby options - meaning other techniques that work from positions near that of the hip throw. Those other techniques make the hip throw a better option, since it fits into a space between them. So, a leg sweep from a near-clinch that gets screwy on the set-up can put them naturally closer to that hip throw. As can a screwy set-up on our Mugger's throw (depending who you ask, similar to shoulder throw, hip throw, or drop seoi nage). To me, the throws where you turn your back are best used when your back is already in danger, or when you've got great position for them. Otherwise, there are better options.

 

[hoshin1600]

i will say again, if your looking at military combatives, they are wearing a lot of gear. this has a major impact on what can and can not be done.

i think they have a good grasp on what works and what doesnt.

i would take a guess that any video footage of just hip throws is more about the documentary maker thinking it looks cool and not really reflective of what is actually trained and what is emphasized in that training. the general viewing population can understand a hip throw while other more subtle BJJ stuff doesnt come across so well.

EDIT: i am aware i posted a video clip of MACP not marine training...MACP is just more availible on youtube.

 

[Danny T]

Military Combatives training also has a strong Ethos and Warrior mindset development which the BJJ/MMA programs are a large part. BJJ type grappling and judo throws are very difficult with a pack on.

The hip throw shown above O Goshi is quite simple to teach and is a great confidence booster.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

i would take a guess that any video footage of just hip throws is more about the documentary maker thinking it looks cool and not really reflective of what is actually trained and what is emphasized in that training.

As with any training, it's entirely possible what was shown was a drill out of context. If we took relatively new Judo students and showed them learning a hip throw, it would look awkward. It's possible the application of the hip throw in their training progresses far beyond what can be seen in that video.

 

[WaterGal]

To me, the throws where you turn your back are best used when your back is already in danger, or when you've got great position for them. Otherwise, there are better options.

Agree - hip throw is a good move for dealing with a person who's already at your back, i.e. doing a rear choke. I think it's worth teaching just for that, even if it's not a good choice for every situation.

 

[CB Jones]

Agree - hip throw is a good move for dealing with a person who's already at your back, i.e. doing a rear choke. I think it's worth teaching just for that, even if it's not a good choice for every situation.

Wouldn't stepping around be a much better tecnique?

 

[WaterGal]

I feel like that might be harder to do with a backpack on and carrying an M4?

Edit: There's also not one perfect answer to a situation. Both that move and a hip throw seem like about an equally good and easy to learn solution to that issue.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Wouldn't stepping around be a much better tecnique?

In most situations, yeah. In others, I'd prefer a throw forward, but not hip throw - just not what comes to mind in my reactions to a RNC (even an improper one). But then, I don't practice them a ton, so it might come up first for someone who trains it more.

 

[oftheherd1]

Wouldn't stepping around be a much better tecnique?

Yeah, I have a hard time visualizing a hip throw from a rear choke is WaterGal is talking about the type of choke shown in your video. To ensure results against a larger/stronger opponent, one might, after stepping around, place the lower/outside hand behind the knee and push on the pressure point there and lifting the leg, while putting the other hand on the face and pushing backwards. That should cause the opponent to fall backwards. In the event the opponent has his adrenaline up and pulls you to the ground, push him forward for the bit of room that provides and slam a knee into his ribs, especially the short ribs. That should ensure he will let go and take some of the fight out of him.

WaterGal, if you have a video of how you would use a hip throw I would really appreciate seeing it.

 

[CB Jones]

I feel like that might be harder to do with a backpack on and carrying an M4?

Edit: There's also not one perfect answer to a situation. Both that move and a hip throw seem like about an equally good and easy to learn solution to that issue.

To me it seems like the hip throw would be easier for your opponent to grab and pull you down with them though.

 

[oftheherd1]

I noticed this looking through some videos recently that these sorts of courses are mad keen for a hip thow. Or some sort of judo variant.

Now I have been taken down by judo throws but never by a guy who hasn't really trained the thing.

What normally happens is they fire one off, wind up with their back exposed and basically have a real bad day from there.

Now I get it if you do judo. You can spend enough time getting good enough that it works. Above video is Mc Map which i cant imgine has anywhere near the time to make people competent enough to make it work.

IMHO you would make yourself more creditable by trying to show more respect, rather than your constant reference to Mc Map. Some military units would do more training in hand to hand combat, and some less, depending on their mission. Some military people will train on their own after formal training, some will not. Sound like civilian trainees you have known?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

To me it seems like the hip throw would be easier for your opponent to grab and pull you down with them though.

Not if you use under hook or over hook and move in from the side of your opponent. This way you don't need that "body spin".

The hip throw is the mother of all throws. Since it will give you both feet on the ground, you use it when you have not developed any leg skill yet. After you have developed your leg skill, you may want to use leg break, leg block, leg spring, leg lift, leg twist, ... instead.

 

[WaterGal]

This is a shoulder throw, but basically what I trained in Hapkido:

Here's another video, showing how you might do a throw in one scenario and a step around kind of technique in another, depending on your opponent's body position relative to yours:

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

This is a shoulder throw, but basically what I trained in Hapkido:

People in this thread may be confused between "hip throw" and "shoulder throw". When your opponent is behind you, you may not have enough time to move your arm behind to wrap his waist (or head), under hook (or over hook) his shoulder. So hip throw is not a proper counter for rear neck choke.

 

[Charlemagne]

They are mechanically pretty simple, and can be pulled off against an unskilled opponent without too much difficulty if you train them sufficiently. Of course, the amount of time and dedication that they get to really work on that is debatable.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

hip throw is a good move for dealing with a person who's already at your back, i.e. doing a rear choke.

In stead of using hip throw to counter a rear neck choke, you can use hip throw to achieve a rear neck choke.

 

[Anarax]

Wouldn't stepping around be a much better tecnique?

Can't resist, I see Bas Rutten video, I must click

 

[Martial D]

This is a shoulder throw, but basically what I trained in Hapkido:

Here's another video, showing how you might do a throw in one scenario and a step around kind of technique in another, depending on your opponent's body position relative to yours:

Guy 1: make sure to grab the wrist and elbow, if you grab too high he will tighten the choke

Guy 2: make sure to grab high at the shoulder and elbow, or the throw won't work.


>>same throw

lol