What if somene grabs your leg ??
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bydand
Senior Master
See the above for my take. In my own words: Don't kick high enough to give them the chance, if they try to sweep, show them why it is a BAD idea. If they do manage to grab a leg. it means their hands are too busy to protect things like eyes, lips, ears, etc... before you laugh, hook a finger in a cheek and give a pull. You will follow, or you'll never have chapped lips again, and it hard to continue a fight with half your face flapping in the breeze. Sure you might get bit, but this is a SD situation, you ARE going to get bled on anyway so whatever dangers there is already having to be dealt with.
tellner
Senior Master
Sorry to disagree, Drac and John, but I've known enough Capoeiristas who were damned good fighters. I'm not talking about the ones who want big shoulders and a dancer's physique to get chicks but guys who really do jam that way. It has more of a extensive recent history on T3h D34dly Str33t(tm) than 90% of the martial arts represented here. A good old Angoliero couples excellent tactical sense with evil-mindedness, superior footwork, and the ability to make strong attacks from most of the angles you can't imagine.
Brother John
Senior Master
No need to be sorry bro!! Too LITTLE disagreement kills a good chat!
I've seen many Capoeiristas, most with some amazing skills to be sure! But I don't think that good self defense skills should require being so acrobatic.
I'm ALL FOR people studying/training in something for it's historical significance or heritage or......just because you like it and think it looks cool...etc. Whatever, to each their own.
BUT: If it's good combat ability, I'd place my bets on the man who spent his time working on good, sound efficient strategic skills...with his feet on the ground...
than on those who spent a good deal of their time on something that's 1/2 acrobatics and 1/2 fighting while shackled. ...at's just me...
Mind you, I'm not trying to put the Capoeiristas down by any means! I respect the skills and what it must have taken to get them down...
or up
or around...
Your Brother
John
tellner
Senior Master
The old "Capoeira is the way it is because the slaves were shackled" myth is just that. A myth. It's hard to cut cane, sweep the floors or make salt if you're handcuffed. It was the fighting method of slaves, criminals, Maroon revolutionaries and the poor. That's why it was illegal and looked down on by polite society for so long. It's only recently that a couple strains of Capoeira entered the mainstream and became symbols of Brazilian nationalism.
I'm not completely convinced by the "Angola vs. Regional" distinction. Like most cultural things the truth is somewhere in between for most people. But I will say that what's recognized as the older way of doing things relies more on deception and less on athleticism. You're never sure if he's playing it straight or gaming you. It also tends to stay closer to the ground and does less of the purely acrobatic.
If you look at a lot of the basic Capoeira movements you'll notice that when there's a foot up in the air the head is close to the ground and at least one arm is serving as a support.
Anecdotes aren't statistics, but a couple should be instructive. Donn Draeger took the then world Heavyweight (or was it All Japan Heavyweight?) Judo Champion to Brazil. He got into a dustup with a Capoeirista, nobody special, just a poor guy who spent all day hauling around 100 pound sacks of rubber tree sap and spent his nights drinking and doing Capoeira. From what Chip Armstrong says the fight was over mercifully quickly. And the best Judo player in the world was hospitalized for weeks. Similarly, the first senior Gracie student to get defeated in Vale Tudo competition was knocked out by a Capoeirista called Mestre Hulk.
It's a different way of fighting. Like everything else it depends on how you do it and how you're taught. And all the usual boilerplate. Beyond that it's very effective and has had to stand up to a fierce Darwinian or Lamarckian struggle in very harsh conditions for a long time. A good Capoeirista is a very dangerous opponent.
I'm not completely convinced by the "Angola vs. Regional" distinction. Like most cultural things the truth is somewhere in between for most people. But I will say that what's recognized as the older way of doing things relies more on deception and less on athleticism. You're never sure if he's playing it straight or gaming you. It also tends to stay closer to the ground and does less of the purely acrobatic.
If you look at a lot of the basic Capoeira movements you'll notice that when there's a foot up in the air the head is close to the ground and at least one arm is serving as a support.
Anecdotes aren't statistics, but a couple should be instructive. Donn Draeger took the then world Heavyweight (or was it All Japan Heavyweight?) Judo Champion to Brazil. He got into a dustup with a Capoeirista, nobody special, just a poor guy who spent all day hauling around 100 pound sacks of rubber tree sap and spent his nights drinking and doing Capoeira. From what Chip Armstrong says the fight was over mercifully quickly. And the best Judo player in the world was hospitalized for weeks. Similarly, the first senior Gracie student to get defeated in Vale Tudo competition was knocked out by a Capoeirista called Mestre Hulk.
It's a different way of fighting. Like everything else it depends on how you do it and how you're taught. And all the usual boilerplate. Beyond that it's very effective and has had to stand up to a fierce Darwinian or Lamarckian struggle in very harsh conditions for a long time. A good Capoeirista is a very dangerous opponent.
bushidomartialarts
Senior Master
On the Capoeira front, my understanding (from conversation & research, not from direct experience), is that it's much like real, old-school TaeKwonDo. The fancy stuff is for practice, or when you're playing, or when your girlfriend is watching.
In conflict, it's taking that body that can kick with power while in a handstand, and using it to power a solid hip-level front kick, or headbutt, or to drive a machete or stick as far into your skull as possible. Train hard, fight easy, right?
In terms of what to do if your leg is grabbed, my advice depends on their position. If they had to bend over to get it, put pressure on the back of their head. Robs their power and forces them to concentrate on staying upright. Then stomp down to free your leg. Wrestlers get out of single-leg takedown just like that allatime.
If they're upright, the best advice has already been given. Bend your knee to reel yourself in and do something horrible to the face. Once you're in close, stomp down just like in the above idea.
In conflict, it's taking that body that can kick with power while in a handstand, and using it to power a solid hip-level front kick, or headbutt, or to drive a machete or stick as far into your skull as possible. Train hard, fight easy, right?
In terms of what to do if your leg is grabbed, my advice depends on their position. If they had to bend over to get it, put pressure on the back of their head. Robs their power and forces them to concentrate on staying upright. Then stomp down to free your leg. Wrestlers get out of single-leg takedown just like that allatime.
If they're upright, the best advice has already been given. Bend your knee to reel yourself in and do something horrible to the face. Once you're in close, stomp down just like in the above idea.
This is good and what I have seen work and done. Also one can from this bent knee position put all your weight on the bent leg they have and you can stomp down to get free, to allow for running away. (* They may have friends *) I prefer low kicks myself, as mentioned by others.
Adept
Master Black Belt
I don't mean to sound judgemental, but I think the situations in which this would be good advise are limited.
If they've caught your leg, chances are they've got (momentarily at least) complete control. You weren't expecting to get caught, so you have to react. He was expecting to catch you, so he is already acting, throwing you to the ground, smashing your 'standing' knee with his own kick, hauling you backwards, etc.
My advice would be 1) don't kick above the waist and 2) practice having your kicks caught!
kidswarrior
Senior Master
All great answers. I'll just add, whatever you plan as a follow up, don't let them have the other one too.
Edit: I assumed when posting the above that you meant as a shoot. If it's a kick I've thrown and he's able to grab my leg, I'd say I kicked too high (and why?, when there are so may good targets below the torso). So in that case, what Drac said.
Edit: I assumed when posting the above that you meant as a shoot. If it's a kick I've thrown and he's able to grab my leg, I'd say I kicked too high (and why?, when there are so may good targets below the torso). So in that case, what Drac said.
tellner
Senior Master
Yay! Give the man a cigar! Adept, you're absolutely right.
JadecloudAlchemist
Master of Arts
For me the person who has your leg is going to use either one hand or 2 hands to hold it or maybe wrap it under his arm. The second thing is where does he hold it at. There is a disadvantage to having your leg caught your opponent if skilled enough can easily upset your balance and if is a good grappler could use that to his advantage. However there is also advantages to you having your leg caught one of them is knowing your opponent arm is "tied up" and has only one other arm or no arms if he using both hands to hold your leg. I can see from using another kick to knock him off balance, closing the gap to allow for strikes to the face,if the opponent has his head down striking the base of the skull or wrapping his head for a choke if he shoots in. To me I have grabbed legs and had my leg grabbed and I have done different things each time. So IMO within your art practice having your leg grabbed and the techniques your taught and see what works for you. Then grabs someones leg and see what works for them. From there play with it to get a feel for leg grabs.
If you're in Self-defense mode, then echo Drac, and all those who echoed him. The highest I could ever see myself kicking in a SD situation might possibly be a kick to the floating rib, other than that, knees and muay-thai thigh kicks.
In sparring, however, sometimes I like to "bait" people into catching my kicks. If I see them thinking about grabbing it, I'll "float" a round kick out (which, IMO, are the easiest to catch), then recoil into a front kick position while lunging into their body. It gives you a great shot at their head, and it gets me used to the idea of fighting on one leg if I have to. (Of course, in sparring, I'll also throw heel kicks to the head for fun, something I would never do on the street.)
In sparring, however, sometimes I like to "bait" people into catching my kicks. If I see them thinking about grabbing it, I'll "float" a round kick out (which, IMO, are the easiest to catch), then recoil into a front kick position while lunging into their body. It gives you a great shot at their head, and it gets me used to the idea of fighting on one leg if I have to. (Of course, in sparring, I'll also throw heel kicks to the head for fun, something I would never do on the street.)
newGuy12
Master of Arts
Low roundhouse kick to the groin --> NO, its a feint.
Here it comes again --> NO --> now its a hook kick to the head (head is bent down when opponent covers low to overcompensate!)
Have I written this so that everyone can see the technique? The hook kick looks enough like a roundhouse kick in the beginning of the motion to pass.
I guess it would depend on how the kick was "Grabbed". If I laid a solid round kick into someones body and they caught it in a shoot wresting catch "A" ( arm over tugging it into their armpit, achilles lock set up) I would feel almost SOL. If I threw a hi round kick at the head and was caught in a catch "B" ( arm under tugging it into the shoulder, like shelving my foot ) I also would fell almost SOL as these catches can very likely lead to a quick takedown followed by a submission or break. I would be damn lucky not to be destroyed within a heart beat of getting grabbed ( kick caught). These two basic kick catches I described are most likely not going to put the catcher in an awkward position of leaning forward offering the head as a target if they know how to do these catches correctly. On the other hand, if someone was looking to catch any kick, especially if they are reaching out trying to catch the foot purely with the hand or hands, I would feel a bit more confident that I MAY be able to pop his top knot for grabbing at my foot. This is not to say I believe no-one can catch my kicks, nor does it mean I think if grabbed I am sure to get away, just expressing my opinon on the possiblity of getting away is more likely when someone grabbing at a kicking foot who does not kick catch using sound kick defenses. I also agree with Drac, low kicks below the pocket for SD. If you even kick at groin level, the hands can reach the foot more easily that when a kick has targeted a knee, shin, ankle etc... JMO. JIMI
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